Both my XS & XJ wont start after severe rainstorm- weak spark?

[scn]

Hi everyone,

I have two motorcycles, 80 XS1100 Special and 82 XJ1100 Maxim.
They both were running pretty reliably and once warm I would never have a problem with them.

I have had the Maxim sit through several rain storms and never have a problem starting up. The Special has not been in my hand for very long but it starts up easier than my Maxim usually does.

Maxim has 20k, Special has 40k. The Special has vacuum advance; the Maxim does not.

Neither bike will run now. It has been more than a week after the storm and I cannot get them to run. The Maxim will not even sputter, it just acts like it has no spark- though I have confirmed each cylinder has spark.

The Special caught a couple times and I managed to get it to run with full choke, and full throttle- it could only manage 1000 RPM or so. I pulled the plugs and they were very blackened- so I cleaned them up with a wire brush. Now it wont even catch on and run.

I checked the Special ignition pickup wires for continuity and they checked out fine.

Both Maxim and Special have plenty of fuel. I added another gallon to each, and saw no difference in the way they run. I even turned the petcocks to off and turned it over with the plugs out to air it all out, and tried again, but no difference.

The spark seems a bit weak on both bikes.

I have charged both batteries after I cranked them for a while, and I have several known good batteries that I have used to help jump start, but no difference.

Keep in mind that both bikes ran well before the storm and something must have gotten wet, but a week later it has not dried out!? They were both under covered parking.

Any ideas? Thanks for any help you can give!

[TopCatGr58]

Hey there SCN,

Okay, even though they are under cover, they are still exposed to the outside elements....humid air which contributes to corrosion of the contacts!

Pull your seats off, remove the TCI connectors, check and clean and dielectric grease them. Next, check your FUSE HOLDERS!!

If you still have the OEM fuse holders,those flimsy brass clamps will get weak, corrode, and often fall apart when trying to remove the fuses!! Remove the fuses and check with a meter, don't just rely on visual inspection!

Put a meter on your battery while you are cranking, make sure that it isn't dropping to or below 10.5 volts, otherwise the TCI's won't fire!!

Also, get some NEW PLUGS, once they foul, it can be very hard to clean effectively enough to get them to spark properly vs. just running down the side of the insulator due to the fouling contamination!

Write back with what you find and have done so we can then try some other suggestions!?
T.C.

[barberad]

I used to live in Okinawa japan. One of the major humidity capitals of the world. The US Navy calls it one of the most corrosive environments in the fleet. Anyways I had to buy WD-40 by the sixpack in order to keep my motorcycles running. It would rain sideways... literally.
If the bikes were running before the storm and your not sure what got wet, you can very patiently pull the electrical connectors apart and spray a little WD on both sides of the connectors. Also check that there is good connections on the grounding points on the frame. You didn't try jumping the batteries from a running car right? I am not sure about the XS/XJ's but I had ever jumped off a running car with my other bikes, something would be seriosly toasted. I hope that helps.
That must have been on serious storm. What's your location?

[scn]

TopCat- I assume TCI is the little ignition module under the seat. I checked the connections and they seemed fine- but I will dielectric grease them.

The fuse box actually looks pretty good. I am in SLC Utah which is very low humidity typically and I think that helps. This may be a dumb question- but should each fuse rack be reading 12V with the Key on, even without the bike running? Is it the same with the ignition fuse circuit? Its midnight so I wont check it out till tomorrow.

I will voltmeter the battery tomorrow and check the voltage stays within your specified range. I just do not think that is the problem since I have some big electric wheelchair batteries that I have used to aid in starting- and they are definitely in good shape.

Will pick up a set of new plugs as well. Why can I not just clean them with a wire brush and have them be good as new?

Barberad- I am in UT as well, where are you? That Okinawa rain sounds crazy- what areas of your bikes were typically downed by water?

I was under the impression that WD40 is flammable and could spark a fire if sprayed on connections. I will go the dielectric grease route at the moment.

Thanks all for your help!

[barberad]

Now that I know your just down the road, I would say both bikes are shot and that you should just scrap them. They are very old and probably not worth very much. I could probably come and pick them up and not charge you very much for helping
That was one very freak rainstorm. The national weather service kept flashing warnings on the TV and radio about staying away from your windows due to high winds and flash flood warnings as well.
The way that weather was, it is quite possible you got water in the headlight assembly as well. You could try pulling the head light and using a hair dryer on the bundles to dry them out.
The fact that is always dusty here mixed with the addition of the rain probably made a nice mess on a lot of the connectors.
Although, I have never had a problem using WD to displace moisture, I have to cede to Topcat on the use of the dielectric grease, he is the master when it comes to these issues.
I'm just up the road in south ogden, If you need any help let me know.
Dan

[Ivan]

Long shot, but it might be water in the fuel. It will sink to the bottom of the tank, and cause the gasoline to not get there.

Just a thought since you said it was a hard rain and neither bike runs now.

[egsols]

I would tend to agree with Ivan, could be water in the fuel. Maybe drain some off into a glass and see. I'm not sure if seafoam will help displace the water and get it running, never tried it, but I think it claims to help.

Another long shot, but maybe check your air boxes to make sure they aren't full of water.

[scn]

Haha Barberad, come over and take these junkers off my hands. That is cool that you are so close, I will let you know if I plan on doing any cruising around.

I pulled the headlight basket off the Special and used a product called Wire Dryer from STP, it is meant to displace moisture on wires, especially ignition.

I used the same product on my TCI box, Pickup coils on the side of the engine, and the fuse panel, and dielectric greased the crap out of the TCI Ignition box connectors.

I confirmed voltage is not getting below 10.5 while cranking. The battery is on the charger as I type this.

After all this, I seem to have a much stronger spark. I had a pretty fat blue-purple spark that jumped close to a half inch, maybe more. It was very strong, but still it does not start. I tried 3 plugs out and the spark seemed the same, from a plug from my Durango to a replacement plug I had bought, to the one currently in the engine.

I had no time to get new plugs, but I will get them tomorrow. I had drained one of the carb bowls into a cup a few days ago and it did not have any water in it. I will repeat this procedure as the fresh gasoline that refilled in the carb may be watery.

My petcocks do not stop the gas from flowing if they are turned to Off, it just keeps on coming. I do not know how to stop it so I have not removed the tank yet to check out the coils. I will likely get some stopper of some sort for this issue- does anybody think that leaky petcocks would cause an overly rich condition upon engine start?

My oil is not milky white, so I have no gasoline contaminating my oil at this time on either bike.

Also, where can I go to find an online step by step on air filter replacement? I want to check out my Special airbox. My Maxim has holes drilled in the airbox to drain any excess fuel or water, so I am fairly certain that is not an issue.

Again, I appreciate the help from all!

[egsols]

My petcocks do not stop the gas from flowing if they are turned to Off

Your petcocks will need rebuilding if they do not shut off, in the off position. They should not cause an overly rich condition unless your float valves are not sealing. The float height controls, somewhat, the mixture, but if the float valve is not sealing the fuel will overflow and you will notice it in the air box and possibly the crankcase.

My oil is not milky white, so I have no gasoline contaminating my oil at this time on either bike

I am not aware that gas would turn oil milky white, generally water will do that. I check for fuel in the oil, firstly by checking if the oil level is abnormally high and secondly by dipping a thin strip of cardboard into the oil fill hole and then smelling the strip to see if their is any gas on it.

I want to check out my Special airbox

There should be four wingnuts on the bottom half of the airbox that you need to loosen completely. Once they are loose you drop the bottom half and wiggle it out through the left side of the bike.

[barberad]

I had my tank and seat off just before that storm due to the fact that I was stripping the flat black spray bomb off my top end. I bagged my carbs, wires and any other connectors I could before pressure washing it. I seen the dark clouds rolling in so I garaged the bike.
Having pulled alot of my connectors and inspecting them, (I have to say again this is a very dusty place, it is technically high desert) dust + moisture = muck. It's been warm again for the last couple days so there should be drying by now. If the air filters got plugged...then again we are talking about what looks like a (pair of) spark problem(s), not a choking out problem, on two bikes. Any one ever hear about a serious deluge, shorting out a (pair of) kill switch(s) on a thirty year old motorcycle(s)?

[Ivan]

Your special should have a hole in the bottom of the airbox. there is a square block looking cover about an inch square that holds some foam in it. I have four of the bottom halves of the air box and they all have them, so I suspect yours would too

[trbig]

When I first read this, I also thought about the kill switches shorting out. But if this happened, they wouldn't even crank would they? Seems like when mine is on, it doesn't do anything if I remember right.


Tod

[fredintoon]

Hi scn,
try taking the carbs right off and see if the bike will fire with a shot of ether-based instant start down the intakes.
if it fires up for a brief braaap you got fuel problems.
Check the list's search option for references to the "octopus valve" your Special was built with and that most POs have junked already then look for whatever your PO has done instead.

[egsols]

Anybody feel free to correct me but....

1. Both bikes subjected to extreme wet conditions.
2. Both ran well before, will not run now.
3. Both have spark, although they appear weak.
4. Plugs on special appear fouled (rich)

Based on the above, with a spark and IF they were getting proper fuel at least they would sputter and cough. I'm guessing that whatever is getting to the cylinders isn't volitile enough to ignite. I would seriously consider dumping both tanks and refilling.

It just seems wierd that both won't fire and as such, IMHO, I would assume fuel contamination.

[barberad]

One more thing to add to the moisture theory, the day was pretty hot before the storm so:

1. two bikes sitting on hot asphalt all day long. (20% humidity)
2. serious downpour.
3. almost thirty degree temperature drop in very short time. (1 hour)

sounds like pretty good conditions for condensation build-up to me.