lead substitue

[bigb9582]

i see this stuff at walmart called lead substitue . its for engines that require the old leaded fuel. knowing that my 79 called for leaded fuel, do u think it would be worth puting this stuff in the gas?? maybe a little more power or fuel economy??
the bottle did say for off road use only. it was like 6 bux for a bottle that has a little measurer on it to measure the small amounts u would need per gallon of gas.

[TopCatGr58]

Once again, amazing what you can find in the tech tips...MISC section!

Lead FAQ

Increasing Fuel Mileage FAQ

So...get the lead out!
T.C.

[Paintman]

Lead

Hi i ave several; older vehicles that needed leaded fuel to lubricate the valaves i just put in a qrt f tranny fluid to 20 gals of fuel works great JAT. but i run reg uneaded in my 79 with nor problems at all.


John

[Montreux_Blue]

I took off the side covers to polish them today and the Yamaha "vehicle emissions control information" sticker states -
"gasoline grade: regular (leaded)
research octane: 91 min."

[Crazcnuk]

"Hi i ave several; older vehicles that needed leaded fuel to lubricate the valaves "

Lead was never for lubricating the valves. It was used to raise the octane.

Most of have run unleaded gas in these bikes forever, and it affects nothing.

Not sure what you think putting ATF in the gas is supposed to do, except smoke. I try really hard to get my vehicles to NOT burn oil.

[tarzan]

Actually lead was used to lubricate the valves.Thats why when rebuilding older vehicle heads,it is recommended to use hardened seats.

[Montreux_Blue]

Your both right.

Lead

The mixture known as gasoline, when used in high compression internal combustion engines, has a tendency to autoignite(detonation) causing a damaging "engine knocking" (also called "pinging") noise. Early research into this effect was led by A.H. Gibson and Harry Ricardo in England and Thomas Midgley and Thomas Boyd in the United States. The discovery that lead additives modified this behavior led to the widespread adoption of the practice in the 1920s and therefore more powerful higher compression engines. The most popular additive was tetra-ethyl lead. However, with the discovery of the environmental and health damage caused by the lead, and the incompatibility of lead with catalytic converters found on virtually all newly sold US automobiles since 1975, this practice began to wane (encouraged by many governments introducing differential tax rates) in the 1980s. Most countries are phasing out leaded fuel; different additives have replaced the lead compounds. The most popular additives include aromatic hydrocarbons, ethers and alcohol (usually ethanol or methanol).

In the US, where lead had been blended with gasoline (primarily to boost octane levels) since the early 1920s, standards to phase out leaded gasoline were first implemented in 1973. In 1995, leaded fuel accounted for only 0.6% of total gasoline sales and less than 2,000 short tons of lead per year. From January 1, 1996, the Clean Air Act banned the sale of leaded fuel for use in on-road vehicles. Possession and use of leaded gasoline in a regular on-road vehicle now carries a maximum $10,000 fine in the US. However, fuel containing lead may continue to be sold for off-road uses, including aircraft, racing cars, farm equipment, and marine engines.[15] The ban on leaded gasoline led to thousands of tons of lead not being released in the air by automobiles. Similar bans in other countries have resulted in lowering levels of lead in people's bloodstreams.[16][17]

A side effect of the lead additives was protection of the valve seats from erosion. Many classic cars' engines have needed modification to use lead-free fuels since leaded fuels became unavailable. However, "Lead substitute" products are also produced and can sometimes be found at auto parts stores. These were scientifically tested and some were approved by the Federation of British Historic Vehicle Clubs at the UK's Motor Industry Research Association (MIRA) in 1999.

[Crazcnuk]

"Actually lead was used to lubricate the valves"

No it wasn't, and that's why you never see any of the older 'leaded' vehicles failing due to a lack of lead. The hundreds (thousands?) of XSers (and all other bikes from the 70's that are still roaming around) out there running non-lead gas will attest to that.

The reason for hardened valves seats was two fold, increased spring/seat pressures with higher lift camshafts and higher rpm engines, and also because with high energy ignitions, lean fuel settings for emmission controls and higher thermostat settings, the combustion chamber temperatures are higher now than in the 1960's

This is also why propane engines like hardened seats. Propane burns much hotter than gas.

This necessitated the need for harder seats and better valves.

Modern cylinder head design is much better at getting rid of excess heat in the valve area as well.

[strippedFJ]

All Japanese motorcycles from the mid 70's onwards were designed to run on unleaded fuel.

[Montreux_Blue]

So why does it say on the inside of the left hand side cover sticker -

"vehicle emissions control information
gasoline grade: regular (leaded)
research octane: 91 min."

I don't add lead or plan on adding it but I wonder why it says this on this sticker from the Yamaha factory.

[strippedFJ]

To prevent confusion. Many of the markets they were exporting to at the time had limited, or no, access to unleaded fuel.

Plus while the factories already knew by then that unleaded fuel was the way of the future, they didn't want to restrict sales in countries which were already contemplating rules to require only unleaded fuel in vehicles marked as unleaded. By designing the engines for unleaded, but getting the vehicles classified as leaded fuel vehicles they bypassed the restriction.

[strippedFJ]

Originally posted by strippedFJ
To prevent confusion. Many of the markets they were exporting to at the time had limited, or no, access to unleaded fuel.

Plus while the factories already knew by then that unleaded fuel was the way of the future, they didn't want to restrict sales in countries which were already contemplating rules to require only unleaded fuel in vehicles marked as unleaded. By designing the engines for unleaded, but getting the vehicles classified as leaded fuel vehicles they bypassed the restriction.

PS similar thinking influenced the horsepower statements for factories. German Katana 1100's were rated at 100 hp, but everyone knew that they were actually 111 hp. Germany had by then (or were just about to) implement their 100 hp limts for motorcycles.

[barberad]

"vehicle emissions control information
gasoline grade: regular (leaded)
research octane: 91 min."

So does everyone really run the 91 octane?
I would try to do a poll, but if anyone has ever seen any of my posts would agree, typing is really a feat for me (well...spelling), let alone try to fiqure how to use the more advanced features. Here in Utah and probably other higher elevation locations they actually sell 85. Runs okay in my Bravada, but I have always used the higher octanes in all my bikes. Then again none of my other machines had the power of my Maxim.
So with the price of gas, how low would you go?

[red bandit]

I've been running 87 for several years in my 11. Runs great, no pinging or any other noises/problems. Tried the premiums and only diff I noticed was in my pocket.

[strippedFJ]

I use regular unleaded, which is 91 octane here in Aus. Have done so in all Big Jap 4's I've owned. I don't see any real benefit in doing otherwise.


Don't actually know if lower ratings are readily available here, higher are.