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  • Hello and Tech stuff.

    Well hello all, Ive been reading this forum for a few weeks now and it is now that I am compelled to finally join officially. Story goes.. I recently got an XS 1100 from a friend, its a 79 (on the title) 6/78 on the steering stem tag and has an 80 engine and carbs. (Thanx to this site for info that helped me ID all this).
    So I made the leap of faith, bought a battery and a clymer manual. I spent probably a week working on the carbs, not so much a clean/rebuild but an act of restoration. Now they are pristine, better than anything Ive ever worked on, sans a few flaws that were not my fault. Mainly #1 is missing its float drain (torn off in some violent episode) and a few other battle scars on the float cover, also the area where the outer or left throttle shaft seal is was a bit broken and the seal replaced with an o-ring. I turned wood dowel to fit and wrapped it in saran wrap and JB welded it, upon removing the wood dowel and peeling off the plastic there was the perfect missing part. This is important because I suspected there could be damage to #1 cylinder if it had run lean for long (cause of the air sucking in the throttle shaft hole).
    Anyway. Got it up and running, noisy but after a quick cam chain adjust, and then a quicky sync it ran pretty well. At least for a preliminary try for an old bike that sat forever. Also did a Por-15 kit to the gas tank.
    I had old plugs still and noticed #1 misfiring a bit and some smoke on the left side that stopped as it warmed up. I dont have a comp gauge so I could have learned more earlier but oh well.
    I knew the bike supposedly skipped 2nd gear if you pushed it to hard. But for the brief test run around my yard, it skipped 1st gear pretty bad if you even gave it anything, but it ran pretty well for test purpose so I stopped and parked her.

    This is how we get to me joining the forum. This afternoon as I was cleaning and preparing my newly ground gears and countershaft to go back into the bike (Yep already did all that hehe). I was looking for a bolt that I thought might be in the bottom pan, and as I drug my fingers around in the old deep thick funk of 40 thousand years at the bottom of the pan.. low and behold !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A pretty good sized chunk of RING.

    Well I can pretty much guess where that came from.

    So, here I am. Gonna keep cleaning parts. Get everything finished and box em back up in there boxes and consider my options.
    I got this bike cause it might be able to run or I could part it out and put it into the 71 cb750 thats stripped down in my living room. Not sure what to do now with her. Kinda wanted to keep it and mabye drive it to florida this winter.

    Guess Ill start looking to see if parts are still out there to rebuild these. Really dont have the $ to do all that . Although I do all my own work I'd still have parts and machine work to pay for.

    So thats my story, Hello everyone and thanks for all the excellent info so far.
    XS1100 F/G (79 Bike/80 Motor)
    Grab a tetanus shot and jump on!!!

  • #2
    I think your jumping the gun here if you think it's a piston ring. I would finish the bike and see what happens from there but the possibility of a piece of piston ring just falling into the pan is pretty slim. I would suspect that it's a piece of snap ring or shim from the transmission considering you could not shift 1-2. I would finish it up and ride it gently for a few days and see what happens.
    I hate signatures. Too many cars and Bikes to list here.

    Comment


    • #3
      I actually could shift thru all the gears with the bike not running, when I test rode it I went around the yard once or twice then down my gravel road just to the next driveway mabye 300 feet or so. So I got it thru second and into 3rd.. When I did my gears.. First was pretty worn, second showed that it had infact slipped from the shiny faces, and 3rd was actually much more worn than 2nd but had never slipped by the look of the face/side of the gear. That is 3rd right? the other dog/slot interaction on the countershaft? If I understand things right.

      The only reason I thought ring was from the apparant diameter of it . Its a pretty big piece and theres a lot of little chunks of it too.. From my past exp it looks to me like a real ring one of the middle or upper types, and there is some other chaff in there.. foily and some gold lookin stuff.. mabye oil ring ? hehe..
      The search goes on . Im not giving up, I have hope but hopefully the damage is limited. Somehing came apart in there.. and if this bike is basically 4 - 275cc's.. (in a way).. that sure looks like about the right size. .. hehe.. (crossin fingers)
      XS1100 F/G (79 Bike/80 Motor)
      Grab a tetanus shot and jump on!!!

      Comment


      • #4
        If it comes down to it.. you can tear it down so you can see if there's damage to the cylinder. I have no idea how it could break a ring.. let alone how it would get out between the piston and wall, unless it was done on installation, or someone freeing up a stuck piston from years of sitting.

        Either way, I know I personally have some used stock sized rings, and a set of stock cylinders shouldn't be hard to find if needed. A member on here named andreashweiss could probably line you out with that if needed.

        So.. worst case scenario... replace the cylinders, throw a quick hone to them and put the stock pistons back in with complete rings.

        Wiseco has a couple choices if you want to rebuild, but you'd need to get the cylinders bored. They hop the motor up to either 1179cc or 1197cc, but this is definately not going to be the cheaper route.

        OR... you may find that what you found might not be a piece of ring?? Not good to find metal pieces in the pan... but who knows?? That bike is nearly 30 years old.

        Tod
        Try your hardest to be the kind of person your dog thinks you are.

        You can live to be 100, as long as you give up everything that would make you want to live to be 100!

        Current bikes:
        '06 Suzuki DR650
        *'82 XJ1100 with the 1179 kit. "Mad Maxim"
        '82 XJ1100 Completely stock fixer-upper
        '82 XJ1100 Bagger fixer-upper
        '82 XJ1100 Motor/frame and lots of boxes of parts
        '82 XJ1100 Parts bike
        '81 XS1100 Special
        '81 YZ250
        '80 XS850 Special
        '80 XR100
        *Crashed/Totalled, still own

        Comment


        • #5
          Great ... Welcome !!

          Sorry about the discovery in the oil pan. Not the end of the world though. Andreas Weiss is a friend of the forum and, if it does turn out to be a piece of a piston ring, I'd be willing to bet that he or another member here has a loose piston and rings layin' around at a very reasonable price. Far as new pistons or rings are concerned ... well .... that might be tougher.

          By now you may already heard of PartsnMore. A gasket set can be gotten there for a reasonable price. So it sounds like you've got yourself a project .... have fun and keep us informed. This is a great place to hang out!!
          80G Mini-bagger
          VM33 Smooth bores, Pods, 4/1 Supertrapp, SS brake lines, fork brace

          Past XS11s

          79F Stone stocker and former daily driver, sold May '10 now converting for N.O. to cafe style
          79SF eventually dismantled for parts
          79F Bought almost new in 80, sold for a house
          79F The Ernie bike sold to a Navy dude summer 08
          79SF Squared-off Special, Vetter/Bates tour pkg., Mikes XS coils, G rear fender and tail light. Sold June 09

          Comment


          • #6
            Good thing is, it was a free bike. (yeah I know im crazy. ) but I think Ive adopted the slogan "The bike stops here!" .

            Its not fun if there no challenges, Ive already accomplished huge amounts of stuff with basically no money. Just wrenching time and intense cleaning.

            I almost wonder if I should abandon my poor CB and sell a few Jeeps (Jeep gods forgive me) to finance this thing. Summers almost over in Michigan but Im really looking big picture, so next year would be ok with me but escaping michigan in about late jan or feb would sure be nice even if I have to have someone drop me off in a state where the snow runs out. Well see.

            edit... only got about 200 invested so far.. (millions in time hehe)
            XS1100 F/G (79 Bike/80 Motor)
            Grab a tetanus shot and jump on!!!

            Comment


            • #7
              I would just about guarantee that you have a loose transmission circlip - not a piston ring. I have never heard of a ring fragment making it to the oil pan of an intact engine. Check the Yamaha microfische site. Transmission drawing; #36 in the parts list. The circlips look a lot like a half of a pison ring. Check the ends of the part in question. Piston rings are hard and would be very sharp and jagged if they broke. I'm betting it's smooth on both ends and of a softer metal because it's not a piston ring at all.
              Tim Ripley - Gaithersburg, MD
              1981 XS1100 Special "Spoiled Rotten" Just sold - currently bikeless!!
              23mm float height
              120 main jets
              42.5 pilot jets
              drilled stock airbox with K&N
              Jardine 4 to 1 Exhaust
              spade fusebox
              1st and 2nd gear fix

              Comment


              • #8
                Hey Clark,

                First, you said you've started on the Dremmel fix, did you find the Pictorial tip? There are a few NEWER tips in the tech tips that are NOT linked from the links in the left yellow column, only found by scrolling down from the MAIN FORUM PAGE!

                1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th gear wheels are NOT next to each other in that order....that's what has me concerned about your description of what you found?

                When you take the 5th gear wheel off/out the side of the engine, the 2nd gear wheel is next on the shaft, it's the slots on the 2nd gear wheel along with the dogs on the 5th gear wheel that wear. Same thing for the large wheels on the other end of the countershaft, the 4th gear wheel with it's dogs...6 of them that engage with the 1st gear wheel's slots. Surprisingly, the 3 trans that I've had the pleasure to work on, the 3rd gears dogs WERE undercut vs. the straight cut ones of the other gears!!

                So...this is just to ask and hope that you have undercut both sets/pairs of gears, 5th/2nd as well as 1st/4th!?

                There are some other large "C" rings inside the engine that help hold bearings in place, as well as gears on shafts, and perhaps one of these got broken by a PO? Can't you possibly BORROW a comp. gauge from someone to check out #1 as well as the others?

                The gold colored stuff has me a bit concerned though, regarding possibly flat crank/rod bearing shavings??? With messed up 1st and 2nd gears, AND the bikes 2nd engine, sounds like the PO's rode it pretty hard...did you look closely at the shift forks for signs of excessive wear on the sides where they engage the gears, specifically for the 4th/1st gear due to folks tendency to hold there foot agains the shift lever to try to force the gear into holding...wears the fork fairly fast since it's aluminum and the gear is hardened steel!

                Spare engines come up on Ebay and such all the time, sometimes cheaper to find a whole bike than just an engine, then you have lots of spare parts...if you find one close in year/make to the one you have.
                Good Luck. T.C.
                T. C. Gresham
                81SH "Godzilla" . . .1179cc super-rat.
                79SF "The Teacher" . . .basket case!
                History shows again and again,
                How nature points out the folly of men!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Ok here is an attempt to answer the questions in this last post.

                  The first part maybe is me speaking to fast. (typing). What I think I meant was.. I did the 3 interactions of gears on the counter shaft so yes. One was the first gear situation where 1st and 4th interact. (where you are "IN" 1st gear). also the 5th/2nd interaction of dogs/slots.

                  Also the other one on that shaft which I belive is when you are "IN" 3rd gear mabye Im wrong there but they needed it and I did it.. its all done and ready to go back in..

                  Ok as for the shift forks. they all look really good except for #3 which has only a slight amount of wear that is not on the normal wear face, they still even look ok but a slight scratching up on the web or whatever. Which I assume was when it was skippin gear.. Had to push against something I suppose.

                  To Xspastor, Actually its very brittle hard steel and jagged.. may pieces .. I am not at all suprised to see it anywhere. Im never amazed at the crazy things that happen when engines melt down.. but for some fun. here are a few pics of the largest chunk that I have displayed next to a standard measuring device.

                  http://www.btc-bci.com/~jaserb/pictures/piece1.jpg

                  http://www.btc-bci.com/~jaserb/pictures/piece2.jpg

                  It is a larger diameter than a standard beer/soda can. The one in the pic is a 24 oz. can, a little wider.. (isnt this the standard???)..


                  Edit:::.. Ok I retract my earlier thoughts.. There is NO wear on the outer edge of the thing.. couldnt be a ring.
                  Mabye its too early but WHEW!
                  Last edited by ClarkGriswald; 08-13-2008, 06:31 PM.
                  XS1100 F/G (79 Bike/80 Motor)
                  Grab a tetanus shot and jump on!!!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Middle drivin gear, the bearings on either side have some circlips are those nearly that large? just lookin at my manual. Its gettin dark already or id go unwrap all the plastic around my bike . (its outside on my sidewalk ). and stick my head up in there with a flashlight. .. hope this is less than I jumped at
                    XS1100 F/G (79 Bike/80 Motor)
                    Grab a tetanus shot and jump on!!!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Update ::

                      Well I couldnt find any sign of any missing or odd things inside my motor. So I put it all back together. Threw in a new set of plugs and my comment is . "Wow" .

                      Havent had it on dry pavement yet but out in the yard/field and up and down my dirt road I can get on it as much as I dare for the surface and 1st, 2nd and 3rd shifted right and no probs or noises. Man these things pull. Good thing is I managed to do some more cleaning before I put it all back together. Time to put her on the road and work out the rest of the kinks.





                      She sat right there on the center stand as I did the trans. Cant wait to get it legal.
                      XS1100 F/G (79 Bike/80 Motor)
                      Grab a tetanus shot and jump on!!!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        So all the bearing circlips were present and accounted for? I guess that means a PO did some work and had some extra parts left over that fell into the crankcase. At least, that's what I hope.

                        Have fun on your new toy and ride safe! These things DO really pull! Respect it until you get used to it and then respect it even more.
                        Tim Ripley - Gaithersburg, MD
                        1981 XS1100 Special "Spoiled Rotten" Just sold - currently bikeless!!
                        23mm float height
                        120 main jets
                        42.5 pilot jets
                        drilled stock airbox with K&N
                        Jardine 4 to 1 Exhaust
                        spade fusebox
                        1st and 2nd gear fix

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Well, put it this way. Any of the stuff you can see from the bottom pan hole is there. From what I could see in the parts blowups, there seems to be 3 pretty large circlips. The middle driven gear area, but it looks as though they are captive in a slot in each of the case halfs and slot in the bearings so Im not sure how they could ever get outta there. Unless Im missing something. My guess was, If thats the culprit then perhaps upon assembly or reassembly in the past; one of those slipped out of where it was supposed to go before the cases came together. If it was hanging out in that middle driven gear area then it could easily chew up and spit down into the trans pan. Thats all I could figure.. I did get a nice view of the bottoms of #1 and #4 with a flashlight, looked fine to me. It is at least whole enough to ride now in between much more wrenching/scrubbing.
                          XS1100 F/G (79 Bike/80 Motor)
                          Grab a tetanus shot and jump on!!!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thanks again, and up and runnin.

                            Hey, today I put ins and plates on the ole girl and did a test run to my sis's place about 3.5 miles away. Tommorow gonna go to my folks place about 15 one way 30 round trip. Did another sync after I got home and let it cool for a while till it was right.. I had #s 1-2 pipes with a light gold color and 3-4 with a slight blue-ing. That made me think a balance adjustment, sure enough they were pretty good to each other but the banks needed equalized. Idles a little smoother and rides around the yard in 1st/2nd a little smoother.. Now I need a comp gauge and spec my valve train and see what shims I'm gonna need. It runs quit well but Im sure theres some difference just by the sound idling standing behind the bike.

                            Plus I attempted to use this old funky gauge that was laying around in the barn but its always been weird and wrong.. it did however indicate a difference between cyl's so .. real soon here I'll get a real gauge and check/record my comps then pop the V cover off and check em.

                            After the first few miles I made a corner onto a straight stretch of country road with wide open (viewable ) fields on either side.. got it up into 2.5 or 3k or so when it runs real clear and the pushed it thru all the gears as fast as I dared for a test run (with shorts/tshirt, being carefull). No probs in the gears, nice shifting. Even goin into 1st from neutral is far better now than before, reminds me of about any other bike.

                            So thanks everyone I was bummed out last week when I found that piece of circlip in the pan, but ya'll renewed my enthusiasm so I kept pushing.. Im happy cause tommorow morning its not gonna be a 97 olds gutlass.. but an XS11..

                            It has just gone from scrap steel that my friend was threatening to scrap for the last 3 years to a running/legal bike that needs a few more "projects". (but if I wanted it I could have it, mabye to part out to put the money into my 71 CB750).
                            Right after I inserted the CB into my living room (with the help of a tractor/boom). He dropped by and mentioned that bike again. That was about a month ago mabye and there hasnt been a day that I havent had some part of it here in my living room scrubbing or whatever.

                            Mabye I'll see some of yall on the road someday.
                            XS1100 F/G (79 Bike/80 Motor)
                            Grab a tetanus shot and jump on!!!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              That's great to hear you got it running.You have got to be a bachelor eh?Back in 2000 when SWMBO moved in the first thing she did was make me take all the car parts out of the kitchen cupboards and put them in the garage.The kitchen is for food she said!LOL.Well I was a bachelor at that time and did the drivethrough thing.
                              Oh and welcome to xs11 ,.this is a great place to share info.I think everyone here pretty much was looking for info when they got here.Great people here. Have fun
                              P.S. This type of thread is usually put in the members lounge.
                              80 SG XS1100
                              14 Victory Cross Country

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