Wondering about engine noise

[Brasco18]

I am having a similar issue. I just checked my tensioner tonight and I am pretty sure I need a new camchain.

You only need to loosen the lock bolt to the point when you can turn it with your fingers. That means not that much. It is probably not advisable to loosen the lock bolt all the way out as the tensioner rod may move past its end.

Your steps to do a camchain tensioner adjustment are right. As I was told, probably in this thread, to check if you need a new camchain, first do a proper camchain adjustment. Next, remove the camchain tensioner unit from the engine by unscrewing the two hex bolts that mate it to the engine. Make sure the lock bolt is not loose. I made this mistake the first time and the spring and rod fell out on the ground. With the tensioner unit removed, loosen the lock bolt until you can turn it with your fingers. If you can turn the lock bolt with your fingers and the rod doesn't move, that means your tensioner is at its max and your camchain needs to be replaced. Be careful if you continue to loosen the lock bolt. I was sitting on the curb and I loosened mine out too much and the rod shot out ten feet into the street! I had to stand there and wait to see if the passing car was going to run it over - it missed it by and inch!

I also think it is possible for sound to emanate from from the middle drive. Make sure you have enough oil in there.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Korr,

Brasco provided some more helpful info. The part that's missing is that the chain doesn't get that much slack in it, so that when you loosen the tensioner lock bolt, the plunger doesn't have very far to go, so you don't always hear any click sound!

What is needed is do what Brasco said, rotate several turns, then stop at "C", unlock, loosen, then tighten tensioner bolt, and THEN remove the unit as a whole. Check it the way Brasco said to see IF it's at or near the end of it's adjustment travel.

THEN depress the plunger back into the housing compressing the spring a good bit, tighten the bolt so it holds it compressed, put the whole unit back on the engine, and THEN loosen the bolt and then you WILL hear the click as the plunger is driven into the sliders/tensioner brackets, and THEN tighten bolt, lock nut, and then you have done the tension properly.

REMEMBER TO NOT TOUCH THE CRANK WHILE YOU HAVE THE TENSIONER OFF/OUT, or it can cause the chain to possibly skip a tooth.....just ask JERRY!
T.C.

[Brasco18]

So last night after I had made my adjustments, I took the bike for a spin to see if it sounded any better. At first I noticed a different noise, kind of a ringing noise. I am not sure what it was. It went away after I had ridden the bike for a bit. I need to ride it again to be sure. Anyways, I get home and after a while notice some oil drops on the ground. I check and see that the plug on the end of the tensioner had fallen out! I knew it wasn't sitting right and was probably the cause of the oil leak there. It doesn't appear to have drained that much oil as the tensioner rod is a pretty snug fit so it was only dripping a bit. I will now need to order a new plug. I see Bikebandit.com has one for 4 bucks plus shipping. In the mean time, I filled the end of the tensioner with gray silicon. I figure that should be good enough for the time being. I will just clean it out once I get a new plug.

[skids]

More importantly, if it popped out because your stopper bolt slipped, you had better readjust that tensioner before you run it any more.

Originally posted by Brasco18
I check and see that the plug on the end of the tensioner had fallen out! I knew it wasn't sitting right and was probably the cause of the oil leak there.

[Brasco18]

Hmm. You bring up a good point there, skids. I should do that. Problem is I bet the silicon I put in there is strong enough to hold the tensioner rod from moving. Either way, I will do an adjustment before I go on my six-hour journey tomorrow.

It doesn't make sense why the rod would be moving as the lock bolt was and still is tight. But then again it doesn't make sense for the plug to just fall out. Although it was old and had cracks in it...

[bikerphil]

tensioner

I wouldn't trust silicone holding the adjuster rod. Make sure you are 100% confident that it will not slip before running the engine. Valve damage may occur. Do not overtighten. DAMHIKT.

[Korr]

Yeah good idea I'll check the rod first to see if it's at it's limit before i try to replace the camchain. Hey TC when you said rotate several turns did you want me to do a complete circle a few times before i line up the "C" ?

[TopCatGr58]

Yes,

The idea is to put the proper amount of tension on the back side of the engine/chain path, and rotating the crank a few times ensures that, and then SLOWLY approach the "C" mark. IF you pass it, do NOT ROTATE backwards=CCW, that will just put slack on the back/tension side and prevent proper taking up of the slack that you are trying to create on the front side of the engine/chain path!!
T.C.

[trbig]

If one was to loosen all the caps on the cams, to take the pressure off the valves, you could turn the crank, if needed.

You could do that to get the chain up close to where you need, but the chain isn't long enough to go over the cam sprockets like that. Presumably, you've taken the sprockets off their cam shoulders by that point, but you can't get them to mount back up. A lot of work just to feed a chain..

If the end of the chain you're feeding down to the crank when trying to thread it is loose, (And hopefully attached to the old chain as you do it) it shouldn't grab on the crank sprocket when pulling up the other side.

Just four things to remember mainly..

1. Manually check with a flashlight down from the top of the motor to make sure the cam chain is actually on the crank sprocket.. it can get off to one side.

2,3, and 4. Three things to remember. Triple check that the cams, the crank, and the adjuster are where they need to be before you turn ANYTHING. When you're sure... check one more time. lol.

Hopefully it just needs adjusting properly and not replaced.

Tod

[Korr]

tensioner unit

I did two rotations and then lined up correctly. Then i loosened the lock nut and bolt and retightened them. then i tried to remove the tensioner unit, but it feels like it's on there tight so i just did another rotation/loosen and tighten. when i remove the tensioner unit will oil drip out? I don't want to force it out. I have no idea what's gonna come out if i try to force it out after removing the two hex bolts. Sorry i'm working in the dark with a little flashlight and would hate to lose a part hehe

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Korr,

You may get a few drops, but that's it, it's not an oil chamber, and with the engine OFF, not pressure being put up that high anyways. The housing is sealed with a gasket, and so you are probably just encountering the gasket/sealant sticking together. Take piece of wood/hammer/rubber hammer, etc, and GENTLY tap on it to loosen it sideways, and then it should pull right out! You'll either want to get some gasket material from auto store and make one, or use some gasket forming sealant on the mating surfaces.
T.C.

[ClarkGriswald]

Thats definatly the same noise mine made when I first started it recently. A quick chain adjustment fixed it..
As to the amplification of the noise, cameras usually have pretty lame mic's in them. Youll notice there is none of the low end component of the sound. (like when you moved around the rear of the bike you could hear the exhaust get more poppy sounding but not rumbly.
Most know that low frequency sound is omnidirectional or you can hear it anywhere no matter which way your facing or your relation to the source, higher frequencys are more and more directional so as you moved around the scratchy/grindy sound became more apparant as you approached it although missing the bass or low component your ears/brain have no referance to compare as it were. Ive noticed on a lot of videos that in a way it can be used to hear things that normally arent as prominent, or are masked by the ambient sound/surroundings. A sort of high pass filter if you will.

Just a tip for the future, if you are ever wanting to have real good audio on a video. Most cameras have both an external mic jack AND a headphone jack. If you put on a good set of cans (headphones) and plug in a decent mic you can get some pretty good audio on a camera. The phones let you know how its gonna be (if you need to get closer or speak louder ect.. or if its too loud and actually overdrives the input which is what I suspect maybe be partially happening on your tape). That higher frequency chain noise might actually be clipping the input of the camera so that makes it even worse. Not sure if theres much of that happening as much as filtering effect. Also sounds a little phasey as a lot of cameras do.

Sorry bout the sound lesson but it was brought up a few times about why it seems so much louder than it is.

I just had my tensioner off a few days ago too, made a new gasket and gave it a film layer of ultra black rtv (the oil resistant kind) and the rubber plug in the end (rtv'd). Theres one less leak hahha. I only put a film layer on the gasket and the mating surfaces of something like that (thats a drippy area like that, the way its kind of a tube pointing down. Bound to have oil sitting there. I let the rtv tack up first. I only use it to assist the gasket in cases of oil (like differential covers on cars) and if its something you dont normally take on and off a lot.

[skids]

Just a few drops of oil will come out that are pooled in it. If the two bolts are out, take a big flat edges screw driver to spread out the force, and whack it (gently as it is hollow aluminum) near its base. Have some thin gasket material ready so you can make another.

[Brasco18]

You may have more than just a few drops. I would say both times I had my tensioner off about one or two tablespoons of oil came out. Whatever comes out, just make sure you have something covering your floor, like cardboard or something.

[scalded dog]

Quick question, when removing the head, the cymer manual says to remove the sprokett bolt at the c mark, then rotate the motor 180 degrees, and remove the oter sprokett bolts, then cambearings etc. could we take the sprocketts loose then replace the cam chain, having more slack to work with, and do it safely, would everything still be lined up? thanks 'Dog