Why would it die?

[thewiz]

Wow ...

Very eloquent, DZ. They oughta' make a 'Sticky' outa' that post ... the trouble shooting 'philosophy' outlined here by you is simply awesome.

[olebiker]

Re: Wow ...

Originally posted by thewiz
Very eloquent, DZ. They oughta' make a 'Sticky' outa' that post ... the trouble shooting 'philosophy' outlined here by you is simply awesome.

+1

[ridinghard]

DennyZ, I need you to help write the SOP's at work! Minus the beer part at least.
I just came back from checking the TCI (black box under seat) (i'll start at the top of your list next)
The first set of numbers is with just the ignition switch on, the next is engine running then the volts it should have been according to a previous post somewhere on here. (After I shut it off and checked with just ignition I got the same as when it was running)
grey to ground - 7.8 - 10.7 - 12
white/red to ground 8.7 - 10.7 - 12
Black/white to ground 6 - 6 - 6
Orange to ground 8.3 - 10.6 - 12
Red/white to ground .01 - .01 - 12

I am not sure why the first test with ignition on was so low, but I REALLY question about the red/white to ground! Any ideas?

By the way, I am a member of many forums for my cars, ATVs and now two for my bikes and this I must say has been the most helpful. I have found a few threads with banter and stuff but this thread has been VERY helpful and using the search engine I have found many other useful sections. Pour yourselves a beer and pat yourselves on the backs!

[Dennyz]

Very eloquent, DZ. They oughta' make a 'Sticky' outa' that post ... the trouble shooting 'philosophy' outlined here by you is simply awesome.

Why thank you!

I have made a career out of trouble shooting. Computer, software, motors or life's challenges. Finding the solution to a problem is trouble shooting.

I forgot to mention another important part of trouble shooting. DON'T MAKE ASSUMPTIONS! Verify everything. I spent three days this week tracking down a problem that should have only taken a couple of hours. I made assumptions rather than measurements.

[Dennyz]

gray and orange - go to the coils. These are the trigger signals that fire the coils. They are going to have pulses on the when the engine is running. No current flow when the engine is off, by you should read potential (volts), as you do.

white/red - is the source voltage (potential) to the coils from the TCI. It should read pretty much as the gray and orange. .

black/white - goes to the kill switch. This wire is pulled to ground by the kill switch to kill the TCI (shut engine off). COuld read anything with the kill switch in the 'run" position. should read 0v (ground) when the kill switch is in the 'off" positions.

Red/white - this is the source voltage to the TCI from the solenoid (starter switch). if this goes below 10.5 volts, the TCI can't manage the ignition properly.

Yes, the red/white to ground is a problem. The engine can not be running with such a low reading. So, if the motor is running, there is something wrong with how you are reading the voltage. Possibly meter ground is not good. Try the 'black' wire on the TCI for ground, as this the TCI's ground wire. It should be the same as chassis ground, but if it is not you could be on to something.

I had a drop of about 1/2 volt between the TCI source and the battery. Your readings of 10.7v is not good and could be a symptom of a ground problem. What does your battery read while running.

Because the charging system is not putting out at idle, I suggest having a battery charger hooked up while taking electrical measurement at idle.

You also want to make sure your charging system starts putting out at around 2000 RPM (measured at the battery).

[ridinghard]

First off I need a PC in my garage. Well, one that works anyway.
Cyl #3 appears cooler than the rest at idle. Squirting the exhaust on the other 3 cylinders the water evaporated immediately, but on #3 the water ran down a little.
When the bike is running at 2000RPM the charging system gives only 12 volts, not the 14.5 the book recommends.
I'll check the red/white wire again and if I understand this right I should check grounds?

anyone know why I am not getting e-mail notices about this thread? I checked my greymail, and junk mail, and can't find anything.

[ridinghard]

I double checked and using the blackground wire as a ground all the other wires checked the same (close to what they should) but the red/white only changes the read out to a negative sign. it flickers on a few low numbers but right back to -0.00. This both running and only with the ignition switch on.

[Dennyz]

Hmmmm, I better double check the wire values.

I'll get back to you.

[randy]

Try using an analog meter, it will be easier to see the fluctuations in the orange/grey. The digital meter can't react fast enough.

[Dennyz]

The values I gave you are correct as per my official Yamaha XS1100 E,F &SF manual.

Are you sure you are not measuring the red/yellow? It is very difficult to tell the difference and they are right next to each other.
According to the manual, red/yellow tell the TCI when the motor is being started. This is only 12v when the starter motor is running.

By the way, I went out and checked my 'F'. With my battery reading 11.8v and motor off, I read 10.9 at the TCI (key on). Running I get 12.2 at the battery and 11.5 at the TCI. at a very low idle I saw 10.1 on the TCI and the motor continued to run. So, the running threshold is somewhere below 10v.

[TopCatGr58]

Originally posted by ridinghard
First off I need a PC in my garage. Well, one that works anyway.
Cyl #3 appears cooler than the rest at idle. Squirting the exhaust on the other 3 cylinders the water evaporated immediately, but on #3 the water ran down a little.
When the bike is running at 2000RPM the charging system gives only 12 volts, not the 14.5 the book recommends.
I'll check the red/white wire again and if I understand this right I should check grounds?

anyone know why I am not getting e-mail notices about this thread? I checked my greymail, and junk mail, and can't find anything.

Hey Riding,

Okay, #3 cooler alone is most likely carbs, but could be bad/poor spark plug wire/cap...corrosion between or even inside the cap, the internal resistor and contacts?

The big red flag here is the 12 volts at 2krpm, you need to back off and T-shoot your charging system, could be poor ground, but is more common for Reg/Rect to crap out, but also stator coils, but also sometimes just the 3 large white connectors BEHIND The fuseblock plate, where the wires from the ALT plug into the harness, corrosion can cause heating to the point of melting!

Check your profile to be sure you still have the correct Email addy listed. Then try subscribing to the thread again.
T.C.

[ridinghard]

I was checking the wrong color wire. They both appear the same color stripe but looking at the wiring diagram I was checking the wrong one. I checked the other red/stripe and it tested correct like the others. I checked the first one again but with it cranking and it showed voltage so I was checking the red/yellow not red/white.
I checked compression in cyl 3 (because I was checking it in my 83Honda and felt like a change of pace) It matches the other cylinders with about 120PSI.
Not sure if it will tell anything but the voltage readings between the plug wire and plug in Cyl 4 jumped about 4 times higher than in Cyl 3. I only have a digital voltmeter and really don't know how to use it properly so I don't now what voltage it was but the numbers jumped all around and were consistently 4 times lower in cyl 3. Maybe it was because Samual Adams was helping me trouble shoot but it was getting real confusing with all the wires to check and figuring what went where. Tomorrow I check alone and let Samual Adams celebrate when it is running right again.

[thewiz]

because Samual Adams was helping me trouble shoot but it was getting real confusing w

Ahhhhh..... so many wires, so few beers ... (left)

[ridinghard]

Okay, so I'm jumping back to an old thread, not sure who is still active on this one but I figured I'd post this.
I GOT IT FIXED!!!! Valves needed adjusting. I don't fully understand why it didn't have an affect until the bike ran for over a half hour but cold to 25 minutes of running it would go good. After 30 minutes the valve would stick open and the bike would sputter a little at idle. This is when I did the compression check and found that the Cyl 2 was only at 60 PSI rather than the 130 it had been.
I tightened the cam chain while I was at it, but the valves was my problem.
Anyhow, wife and I are doing a ride to Mount Desert Island this weekend and riding up Cadillac MT and around the island. It was worth all the hassles, at least I learned a lot about the bike.

[melbxs]

Nice work RidingHard and good to hear how you fixed it.

Must be something that only happens after heat expansion has taken place.

Good to hear it's wrking well again.