Frame question

[Toolmaker Tim]

What are the main differences between a standard frame and a Special frame. I was wondering after seeing all the neat cafe bike mods. I have the special, so if there aren't any major diffs, could the same be done to it. This may be the prize stupid question, but now it's out there.

[skids]

The triple tree is at a different angle. Forks are different, foot peg brace is different, rear tire arrangement is different, bars and master cylinder is different, front fender wont exchange with standard. Front brakes different, pipes are different, more...

[Toolmaker Tim]

Thank You Skids. That pretty much answers my question. Guess I go looking for a standard frame. I thought that might be the case.

[Guy_b_g]

You could used the special to base the cafe bike on a lot easier than looking for a standard frame...several here have done so...I'm sure they'd chime in with ideas and suggestions...such as pehaps a set of clubman bars and a standard tank...etc.

[AlanB]

Hi Toolmaker Tim,

My avatar bike started out as an SG (special!) there are a ton of differences between Standards and specials, but very few in the frame!

For example, the bolts which the 'pegs mount on are the same on both frames, the actual Mounts are different, so changing the frame won't help.

Same deal for the rear wheel and the forks........ frame is the same, parts are different.

The frame differences I know of are limited to the brackets right at the rear of the frame for the rear guard and signals, and the pivot for the rear brake pedal; it is in the ally plate on the standard and a steel tube welded to the frame on the Special. The ally plates don't interchange between the two because of this.

The ally plates don't interchange between the frames, and the special kicks the pipes up higher.

There may be other minor differences like side-panel mounts, but they also have year differences.....

Base your cafe project on whatever bike you have; If you want to change forks, wheels or tanks to cafe style, they fit both frames.

AlanB

[Toolmaker Tim]

I am really hoping to find a frame and start from the ground up. Right now I am only thinking about doing this project. When I got to the rideable stage on my 1100SF I found myself going from full bore on a project to being at loose ends. I'm not complaining, I just had a ball duing all my own work and with everybodies advice, making progress. I just found a job to replace the one I had been layed off at, so it will be a little while before I can start. I guess I'm going thru the concept and fesablity stage. Plotting per say.

[The Lorax]

Dumb question here, weren't most of the original "Cafe" bikes parallel twins? Don't get me wrong, if your up to make a cafe bike, make it out of whatever suits you. I thought about doing just that to my XS. but I like the twin look better with respect to the cafe look, but that's my preference. I've seen CB750 cafe bikes that were way cool. but given the connotation, I think more of the old triumph twins and the old BSA's and the like busting around London. I now have a different plan, take my old 400cc Kawasaki twin, put a triumph style tank on it and mod mod mod. I'm hoping to get that tr6B trophy look with the high exhaust (I know, Triumph went back to that look with the scrambler...but it's a triple, and I want a twin, displacement is irrelevant), clubman bars and some other mods, should be fun to do, and be different. have a nice day and ride safe.

[AlanB]

Hi Tim,

You may want to start with just a frame, but it a terrifyingly expensive way to do it!

Thanks to e-bay, these bikes (Most Bikes!) are worth several times more as parts than complete, so start with a complete bike; in decent condition if you can manage it. That way you don't have to replace parts just because they are old/worn/rusty, you only have to replace (BUY!) parts because you want to change 'em.

And if you start with something in OK condition, then all the parts you take off can be sold or swapped to help with buying the "new" parts, rather than thrown in the trash.......

AlanB

[Toolmaker Tim]

Cafe bike

Thanks Alan and Lorax. Those points are the two best ideas I could have heard. I am probably smitten with the idea of getting my xs1100sf running and wanting to do it again. Lorax, when you stop and look at it, the idea of a cafe' bike is more suited to what you described. And Alan, if SWMBO got wind I was blowing more money into a project that I made more expensive than it needed to be, well that makes me break out in a cold sweat. Hmmmm, I seem to recall seeing a xs 650 at a local dealer many years ago that was done up as a streetfighter. Both of you have good points, and if I could convince the little Lady of the Castle that it would save more gas money for just running around town and other short trips, I might just have something. I once had an xs400 standard and I seem to recall getting about 50-60 MPG in spite of my bad Kenny Roberts impression. I do remember having an EXTREME boatload of fun on it. I understand that the Honda 400 Hawks and the GS 450 handled pretty well also.How about the Kaw 400's? This is sounding better and better. Thanks

[The Lorax]

I rather like the way my old kz400 handles, it's fairly nimble in the steering, light, no real issues. I don't believe it would even come close to the handling of a modern bike, but I like it. My son and I are going to start modifying the old kz sometime soon, probably a triumph tank, some kind of custom exhaust, remove the rear fender and make some kind of rear cowl or something to give it kind of a street fighter look. it still wont go more than a C - note, but it should look pretty cool. that's all I got, have a nice day and ride safe.