Jekyl and Hyde brakes

[madmax-im]

On my '81 XS1100SH the brakes both front and back have multiple personalities.One day they work the next the calipers are locked.i have noticed that the warmer the weather the easier for the brakes to loosen up.Vice versa for cold weather and the sieze up.So based on this info...it looks as though the calipers are ok because if they were truly siezed they would not loosen up on other days...does this make sense?If so then i would venture to guess that my problems exist in the brake reserviors and those spooge holes,plus the rubber brake lines prolly gotta go.I also have to bleed the brakes because i do have air in the system,both front and rear.I am looking to upgrade to SS brake lines front and rear.Comments???Thanks BNE

[XSPastor]

Sounds like you're on the right track. Check the pistons and bores when you have the system apart to make sure all is well in there and ensure that rusty pistons are not contributing to the sticky brakes. Pay attention to the groove for the rubber o-ring in the caliper bore - stuff tends to collect under it. Take out the o-ring and scrape out the groove. Definitely disassemble the master cylinders and clean them thoroughly including the fluid return holes (spooge holes as some call them). SS lines will give the brakes a firmer feel due to the reduced line expansion that is characteristic of the oem rubber lines.

[oldyam80sg]

Madman- My brakes on my 80 SG also do that.It must be a New Jersey thing!Seriously, in the wintertime i cant seem to move the bike in and out of my storage unit without alot of effort.I've taken them apart and put stainless braided lines but still they do it.I finally had to take off the left side caliper and that seemed to help.Where are you located in this state?I'm from Hackettstown.

[madmax-im]

Originally posted by oldyam80sg
Madman- My brakes on my 80 SG also do that.It must be a New Jersey thing!Seriously, in the wintertime i cant seem to move the bike in and out of my storage unit without alot of effort.I've taken them apart and put stainless braided lines but still they do it.I finally had to take off the left side caliper and that seemed to help.Where are you located in this state?I'm from Hackettstown.

I'm not madman but at times these brakes have me at wits end...LOL Actually I am in central nj...Robbinsville...near 7a off the NJTPK..I know where Hacketstown area is but nvr been thru there.With your brakes what exactly did you do?Did you dis-assemble the calipers and check for rust,dirt etc??

[madmax-im]

Originally posted by XSPastor
Sounds like you're on the right track. Check the pistons and bores when you have the system apart to make sure all is well in there and ensure that rusty pistons are not contributing to the sticky brakes. Pay attention to the groove for the rubber o-ring in the caliper bore - stuff tends to collect under it. Take out the o-ring and scrape out the groove. Definitely disassemble the master cylinders and clean them thoroughly including the fluid return holes (spooge holes as some call them). SS lines will give the brakes a firmer feel due to the reduced line expansion that is characteristic of the oem rubber lines.

Thanks XSPastor...it looks as though the devil has posessed my brakes and they need to be exorcised..so to say ...on a scale of 1-10 how difficult is this job including the installation of the SS lines and bleeding the brakes?Also what kind of tool is used to scrape the dirt out of the o ring groove.I'm sure you'd not want to put any imperfections in its surface.

[oldyam80sg]

madmax-im - So sorry about the name change i gave you.I completely took apart the brakes and cleaned everything up.I even went as far as taking the pads and lightly touching them up on a very fine grit belt sander.I put stainless braided lines on and bled everything.

[madmax-im]

spooge holes?

In the reservoirs the return holes(very small) get clogged...you got those too...then what type of brake fluid did you put in?

[XSPastor]

Thanks XSPastor...it looks as though the devil has posessed my brakes and they need to be exorcised..so to say ...on a scale of 1-10 how difficult is this job including the installation of the SS lines and bleeding the brakes?Also what kind of tool is used to scrape the dirt out of the o ring groove.I'm sure you'd not want to put any imperfections in its surface.

Its not that tough of a job. We're talking simple hydralic plumbing. 1 to 10, I'd say a 3. You can use a dental tool or you can sacrifice a small screwdriver that you bend a right agle at the tip to clean out the calaiper o-ring groove. Be gentle. Light scratches in the groove are ok but nothing more than that. The rubber o-ring will still seal. Be patient and work slowly. Some Brakleen (brake cleaner) may help dissolve the crud too. Bleeding the brakes is not hard either. Just takes time and I'm sure there's plenty of guys here to help if you get stuck. Those spooge holes are really small so just remember - clean, clean, clean. If you don't get all the particles out of the system, they will eventually be a problem again. Particles that are clogging the spooge holes are probably fragments of your 28 year old rubber brake lines. Flush ALL of the old fluid.

[Toolmaker Tim]

Brakes

Madmax, I had the same problem. I did a major clean like XSPastor suggested and if I can do it anyone can. I had a HECK of a time getting the rubber boots back on the calipers. Speaking of boots, when you take apart the M/C, the boot over the piston end comes out easily if you slide a small BLUNT screwdriver between the boot and theM/C body. If you just try to pull it out, it tears. Don't ask me how I know that. The little internal clip that retains the piston on the M/C requires much patience also in removing it. Good Luck!

[XSPastor]

Yeah - getting that clip off is much easier with some snap ring pliers. You can get a pair with three interchangeable jaws at Harbor Frieght for only a few bucks. Highly recommended.

[skids]

I got one of those snap ring pliars from HF. Personally, I am not happy with it. Although it has many tip attachments and can be made to squeeze or expand, they are not rigid enough to do many jobs and the tip holder is weak.

Originally posted by XSPastor
You can get a pair with three interchangeable jaws at Harbor Frieght for only a few bucks. Highly recommended.

[birch]

Sometimes the rubber on the inside of the brake hose breaks free. When you compress the lever/pedal, the fluid moves forward, and then it cannot back off due to the flap on the inside. I would suggest a new hose both front and back.

This sounds weird, but it happened on an old 750 honda I had. I went through everything--Same as you. I finally replaced the hose and the problem went away. You can blow through the hose both ways, but brake fluid viscosity causes a minor compression and closure.

[Toolmaker Tim]

Madmax, I gotta be honest here and admit I finally got frustrated with the snap ring and grabbed the blasted thing with needle nose pliers and pulled. I figured I could get a new one for less than the cost of high blood pressure meds. It came out and with a little judicial bending was able to use it again. Not quite the correct method, but it worked. As far as HF snap ring pliers go, Craftsman pliers did no better.

[madmax-im]

OK I appreciate all the comments by everyone...it is my intention to get rid of all the rubber brake lines...OUT.and SS/teflon coated brake lines IN...I will clean the M/Cs'and the the spooge holes and flush out the old fluids.Calipers will get disassembled cleaned.I am thinking of getting those bleeder valves that make it easy for one person to be able to bleed the brakes...that is if they're made for the XS...Now the other question had to do with buying the SS lines as a kit...which is in another thread around here...gotta go back and check it ...

[bikerphil]

ss brake lines

Heres a link to a site for good SS brake lines.

http://www.spieglerusa.com/