Resurrection not working

[Chuckster]

In trying to get the bike running for the first time in like a million years, I have not been successful. So far I have: purchased and installed a new fuel tank and rebuilt petcocks, cleaned carbs including installing new needle/seats, main jets, pilot jets, idle mixture screws (1.25 turns out). These were from K&L carb kits. Put in a new air filter. New NGK Iridium plugs. New battery. The engine cranks, but does not start. I removed the drain screws on the float bowls and there is gas in the carbs. I checked the fuse box and in removing one of the fuses, broke off a clip. I have PM'd TC to see if he has anymore of the replacement fuse boxes. Aside from replacing the fuse box, what should I look at next? I would guess electrical, but I'm new to this, where do I start? I apologize if this is covered in previous posts, but I've been searching and just want a logical approach to checking things out.

[psycoreefer]

you need three main things to get an engine running. Air, Fuel, and spark. You said that the carbs have fuel in them, but you don't know that its getting to the cylinders. After you crank it a bit pull the plugs. Are they wet? Can you smell Gas? If yes then you have fuel but maybe not the right mix.

Did you check your air filter? Could be chewed up by mice or have a huge mouse nest in there keeping the proper amount of air from getting to the motor.

If it seems like you have Gas and Air then check your spark. The easiest way is to pull a plug and put it back into the boot and lay/hold it so that the base of the plug is solidly touching the metal of the engine. Now crank the motor. You should see a nice blue spark and possibly hear a snapping sound when the plug fires.

If you have all three of the above I'd do a compression check. If thats good I'd start looking at the fuel mixture.

[prometheus578]

Yeah... those fuse clips!
The only thing you didn't mention was whether it had spark or not.
Pull the plugs... and then lay the wires(with the plugs in them) next to the head and see if they spark. Keep them away from the plugholes... lest they ignite something!

[prometheus578]

I type slowly, it seems.

[Chuckster]

psycoreefer,

Thanks for the reply. I pulled one plug and it was dry. I did not smell gas. I took the same plug and grounding it against the engine, it sparked. I did not do for all the plugs (it was getting late). The air filter is new. Would this indicate the carbs are not set up correctly?

[psycoreefer]

I'd make sure to check at least two (all four to be absolutely sure) as there are two plugs on one coil and two plugs on the other coil. If your trying to start on two cylinders because of a bad coil its going to be really really hard to start.


If after cranking your plugs (best to check all four) are dry and you can't smell any gas then It could be a fuel problem. Do you have the choke on? To verify its a fuel problem you could:
1. get a can of starting fluid and see if it will pop over a couple of times is you spray some starting fluid into the intake while cranking.
2. take the air box apart and try the same thing only with gas
3. Take the carbs apart and verify that everything is correct and also compare your new K&L jets to the ones you took out. There has been some controversy about K&L pilot jets. You can do a search about it if your interested.

Also its best to check all four plugs(or anything else), you could be getting gas on three and not the one you happened to pull.
I've learned that taking a "short cut" often leaves me chasing my own tail when simply spending the the couple extra seconds to be sure I've got the same condition everywhere or to do the "test" the slower/right way would have shown the problem right away. Just ask me why I couldn't drive my truck for two weeks this winter...

[Chuckster]

psycoreefer,

I will do as described, thanks for the guidance. When you say spray starting fluid into the intake, do you mean the intake for the air filter?

When you refer to problems with the jets on K&L kits, could this be a big enough problem that the bike doesn't even start?

[psycoreefer]

I'd just spray the starting fluid into the snorkel where the airbox gets its air. No need to take anything other then the seat off. Its a vapor so it will work its way through the filter and into the engine. Don't try and run it long on starting fluid, its not good for the motor, you just want to verify that with a fuel source it will start.

As for the problem with K&L kits, I'm not sure I've just read that some folks have had problems with them including the wrong jets. I'm not sure how much issue it would cause. I used K&L kits on my carbs and they seem to be ok, but I also made sure that the new jets were very similar to the ones I took out.

[trbig]

Have you checked the compression? If you don't have a gauge, take out the plugs and just put your thumb over each hole and crank it over a couple times. You shouldn't be able to hold back the pressure.

Tod

[boyat68]

Chuckster:

"I'd just spray the starting fluid into the snorkel where the airbox gets its air."
psycoreefer


Be extremely careful of spraying too much starting fluid as the flame if it sparks will ignite the residue in the air box and cause a fire if you have an excess of fuel overflowing into the air box. Have a few rags handy that you can stuff into the snorkel to snuff off the air in case you get a fire in the box.

[prometheus578]

Parrots... a flock of parrots.

One guy says something... and instead of checking to see if it's correct... everyone just keeps repeating it.

I've been fightin' that "damned K&L controversy" now for three years!
THERE IS NO K&L CONTROVERSY!

What is "debatable" is people's ability to know what they're talking about when ordering parts.

"K&L blows... I got the wrong pilot jets."
"K&L makes their jets the wrong size"
"Blah, blah, blah, K&L Blah Blah."

Ok, here we go... everybody hold on...!
K&L doesn't make parts. They are a distributor, same as Bike Bandit, PartsNmore, Tucker Rocky, Parts Unlimited, etc.
Sudco, the big carb people, may make their own, or they just distribute from Mikuni and Keihin, I don't know.
Anyway...
These bikes came with MIKUNI BS30/96 type pilots jets.
(They have six holes in the sides)

"Damned K&L... They sent me jets with eight holes and a big center hole!"
Well duh! You ordered MIKUNI VM22/210 type jets by mistake.

"Those pinheads... Damned K&L jets don't have ANY holes!"
That was a MIKUNI N151.067 type jet.

Controvery?
I don't know... I don't see one anywhere.
K&L sells perfectly good pilot jets... BS30/96 type, size #42.5 (Part number 18.4823)

You can't just tell a parts guy to order MIKUNI pilot jet #42.5 because you might get the wrong one.
Nor can you say, "Gimme a MIKUNI main jet #137.5.
You may have a small, round head... but our carbs take the MIKUNI "large, round head main jets". (there are also MIKUNI large hex head main jets, too)

Now, what's interesting to note:
Yamaha no longer stocks the Mikuni BS30/96 type pilot jet. They changed that years ago. If you order pilot jets from Yamaha... and ask for OEM jets... you will receive the N151.067 type instead.
Now, if you ask the Yamaha guy to order non-OEM jets, he'll flip open the K&L catalog, or the Sudco catalog (like I just did) and look up the part number and order it if they don't have it in the back room.

Now then, a word about "Carb Kits".
Every catalog states:
"IMPORTANT NOTE: Many kits have multiple applications but the jets and needles provided may not be the right sizes for the application. Always check and verify all jet sizes before installation

Now, it may be possable that the K&L carb 'kits" you order will come with the N151.067 pilot jets instead of the BS30/96 which is what you were expecting.
Hey, K&L is just following the lead that Yamaha took years ago by switching to the other style jet.
The newer jet is obviously usable.
The old style jet can be ordered separately.

Now then... Have I finally laid this to rest?

[Chuckster]

Thanks for that! I was totally confused on this subject. It makes a lot more sense now. I still don't know what I have or if it's right, but at least I can try and figure it out now. Thanks for clearing up the mystery (at least until someone disagrees with you!).

[Ken Talbot]

Re: Parrots... a flock of parrots.

Originally posted by prometheus578
Now then... Have I finally laid this to rest?

Great summary, Prom. I vote we put a stickie on this and place it in a prominent spot on the tech section. Then when the subject comes up, we could tell folks to use the search button to look for "parrots".

How 'bout it TC, or is it already there...

[psycoreefer]

SQUAWK... Psyco wana cracker....

I wasn't trying to be a parrot, just wanted to let him know he should compare the new jets to the old to be sure they were the same. I know mine were right but people have gotten the "wrong" parts before. Regardless of who you got your parts from or who makes them its always a good idea to compare the new to the old I can't count the number of times I've gotten something wrong and had to take it back. Mistakes happen.

Chuck.. let us all know what you find. We all want to see you get it running again.

[Gyrogearloose]

Well now, back to the main subject: Ressurection not running. OK. Assuming you've just installed the carbs, try turning up the main throttle adjustment a bit. I've also had this happen: Just installed the carbs after cleaning and turned on the petcocks for fuel. Hit the start button, NOTHING. Cranked over and over. Hmmm. Checked my clear fuel filters: just a hint of gas in there. Choke on?..Yup. Crank, crank. Nothing. Pulled a plug: no gas! Well now, guess what? It appears to have locked up the gas line with air! pull off a fuel line and wait until a good stream of gas appears. Now reinstall the gas line and proceed to start. It has happened to me....twice. Hope this helps.