Let's talk tire balancing

[Jerry]

Innovative balancing

As an alternative, I tried Innovative Balancing's bead system last year before the Olympia trip. Must say it seems to work. I did the front tire first, then the rear, according to their recommnedations. (1 oz front, 2 oz rear.) link is:

http://www.innovativebalancing.com

Scroll down (left side) and look at the Motorcycle link. Read some fo the faq entries as well. Kits are listed under the Products / Pricing tab on the left side of the screen.

Quite a bit of discussion on this at the time. However, after several thousand miles I can say the system seems to work as advertised. I run an Elite II front and and Elite 3 rear. YMMV

[dbeardslee]

Jerry - What a weird idea. Might be weird enought to work, and the price seems right. Am I right in assuming that the beads go inside the tire?

[Jerry]

Am I right in assuming that the beads go inside the tire

Yep. Remove the valve stem. Put the beads in the little plastic bottle. Attach the hose to the plastic bottle and the valve stem. Slowly dump the beads into the tire. Replace valve stem and air up the tire.

Installation went pretty much as described in their instructions, just take it slowly or you will plug the valve stem and / or hose. I tapped gently on the valve stem during the process which seemed to help.

I tried this as I often mount my own tires and was looking to see if there was anyway I could save the $40.00 or so per tire that my local dealer charges for a balance. So far I have been impressed by this sytem, although at low speeds, below about 25 mph, the beads don't distribute themselves. Since my 60-mile each way commute is mostly interstate, as are most of my trips, I don't find the low speed issue any problems, but it could be if you do a lot of city riding.

Anyway, just an alterntive to the more conventional balancing techniques out there. For $12.00 or so it may be worth a try. Once you have the installer kit, you only need to buy the beads for additional tires.

It seems I am the only one who has tried this so far, or at least the only one who has confessed to trying it, so the bead method isn't exactly mainstream. However, as I said earlier, I have put quite a few thousand miles on my bead-balanced tires and am satisfied with the results.

[planedick]

I wonder

Do you take your own eggs to the resturant for breakfast? I was gonna buy a ire online once and I called to find out what the mounting and balancing was gonna cost and that's what they asked me........

[dbeardslee]

Planedick - Hmmm, take your own eggs to the restaurant for breakfast... that's another couple bucks I could save. Seriously though, sounds like the outfit you were talking to doesn't have the first idea of how to get/keep customers. They seem to be adept at alienating them though. Sounds like you got the 'ire' for free.

[prometheus578]

"You put the "ire"... in tire."

We've had that arguement before, Dbeardslee....about two years ago.
It's always nice to save money by buying online, etc.
Eggs?
I think the reference I made back then was bringin' my own steak to "The Outback" for them to cook and serve it to me.
In the big picture of things... I suppose it sort of matters very little. I mean, the shop still makes a profit on the mount and balance.
But from the shop's point of view... the customer is going out of his way to alienate himself. I'm sure the shop won't be tossing around little discounts here and there, nor will the mechs be fixin' minor things for free, "...cause you're a good guy and we like you."
"I bought my new Triumph up in Bremerton, but since I live down here, I'm bringing it to your shop for the first service, etc."
No problem, think I...
Goes to the back of the line. Just didn't seem as important to me as the customer who actually bought his bike from us.
And the people who used to bring in their own oil and filter...
Oh, I'd still throw it up on the rack and change it for them... and as they like to keep track of how their money is spent, I would tell them how much it would cost to replace that burnt out tail light.
(Of course... I would never think of charging a regular customer for something as trivial as that. )

Shops do need to make money... and buying on the internet to save $20 and then taking the item to the shop for the labor really isn't the way to endear yourself to them.
And when your local, convenient shop doesn't make enough money, they close down.
(Been sittin' on my ass at home now for nine months.)

[prometheus578]

"...and furthermore..."

sounds like the outfit you were talking to doesn't have the first idea of how to get/keep customers

Oh, they know how to get and keep customers... they like customers.
But a guy standing there with two tires in his hands... is just that: a guy standing there with two tires in his hands.

Want to change their opinion of you?
(It might cost you a little of that money you saved on the internet, though.)
When you walk in with your "discount" tires... plop a cold six pack on the counter.
They will remember you next time... and treat you like a regular customer.(if not better)

[trbig]

Although I believe in keeping one's local shop open, I also resent the fact that since they are the only local shop, they may feel free to price gouge. While I realize they have an overhead, they quoted me $208 for a Dunlop Elite 2 tire... mounting and balance on the rear is an additional $35. Forty-five miles away, I can get the same deal for $168 including mount and bal. Online, I can buy the tire for $90-$100 shipped to my door. I know a shop that will mount/bal for $20 if I just bring the tires and wheels in.

I'll pay for my tail light to be replaced if I am so inept in bike mechanics to do so. If my supporting my local shop results in me getting my eyes screwed out by them doubling the price simply because they can, I'll bring my steak and eggs with me. Someone will be glad to cook them for me at a decent price.


I do see your point of view from a dealership side, Pro. If it was only a matter of 20-30 bucks... local shop would get it every time. There just comes a point where it gets rediculous.


Tod

[dbeardslee]

Prom - I hear what you're saying. I spent 8 years in sales, and another 12 supporting sales people. My point was, everytime someone walks through the door it's an opportunity for repeat business, and much of that is determined by the way you treat them the first time - first impressions and all. If they had used a little different wording, planedick's experience may have been more positive. I'm not saying they shouldn't charge a fair price for their services, and charge more for the guy who didn't buy his tires there. I'm just saying give him an incentive to get his next set there.

I can tell from your posts you're a smart guy, and I'll bet you choose your words carefully when your talking to the customer. What you say in the back room may be different. I WISH I had a shop with a guy like you in it here 'cause I would be there in a heartbeat. Not just for the products but for the value added you provide.

Didn't mean to ruffle any feathers - just being a smartalec as usual.

[prometheus578]

I can eat at Sizzler's... or The Outback."

Both serve steaks... but The Outback is more expensive because they have pictures of koalas on the walls.
Or, I can stay at home... and cook my ramon noodles by myself and really save big.
Same as anything anywhere...
I only give my money to people I care to give my money to. (I try to give money to the homeless...but they look at me and give it back)

I'm too thick headed and thick skinned to take offense at anything, so no feathers ruffled here, Dbeardslee.
(Ok... so I threw that one tantrum a few years ago... I'm better now)

The problem with charging one customer more for anything....
when he finds out about it... he won't be back.( a package deal... buy the tires here we mount for free would be OK)
Big dealers always charge more. What's Chevy charge for a tune up compared to Joe's Automotive... about double?
Over head, parts inventory, monthly "flooring" costs for all the bikes on display.... money needs to be made somewhere.

I just bought something from Dell for $119. (it wasn't even a Dell product) Another electronics joint wanted $245.
Was just bidding on a "used" gizmo on EBay but dropped out early. Some boob ended up paying $50 more that what he could have gotten it "new" for!

I believe this is why people should shop around before they buy stuff... whether it be parts, or service.

Gas prices are always high right off the highway... drive two miles into town and it's a nickle cheaper.
You're paying for the convenience, TRBIG.

"Last chance for gas before Barstow."
Hmmm... it's 200 miles. Maybe I better get some. (Price doesn't matter anymore)

[dbeardslee]

( a package deal... buy the tires here we mount for free would be OK)

Prom - That's what I was getting at - an incentive. Glad you're not p.o.ed at me. You've given me too much good advice for me to 'bite the hand that feeds me'. Although my ex used to say I only open my mouth to change feet.

[planedick]

Keeping customers

Well, I guess that they do know how to keep a few customers since it's a MC dealership that's been there since 1946 and the only place I know of in So Cal that has parts for the XS11 on the shelf. I eventually found Cycle Gear where the tire was cheaper than the internet price and mounting and balancing was really reasonable.

[Jerry]

Prom and I have had this arguement before...what is a 'reasonable' charge for a local dealer to mount and balance a tire? Most of my tires through the past decades have been dealer-mounted and balanced. However, in this case, the dealer quoted me just under $200.00 (witout tax) for 1 tire. I thought this was unreasonable, so I bought the tire on-line and mounted it myself. While looking for an alternative balancing method I came across this bead system.

To answer my first question...I consider $20 - $30 for a mount and balance reasonable. This is bringing in a 'loose' rim, not one they have to take off the bike and re-install it. Others may have a different standard.

If a dealer offers a reasonable tire + mount and balance package I'll go for it, as I have many times in the past. Note: Reasonable is not lowest price; it consists of price, convenience, and confidence in the dealership. I would rather pay for someone else to fight a tire and rim than do it myself, but only to a point. If the package is unreasonable I'll shop elsewhere or do it myself. If you follow the later path, there are both conventional and unconventional options for tire mounting and balancing.

I have no guilt or regrets in cutting a dealer out of the loop if their prices are unreasonable.

[yadada]

Here's what I did. Used ABEC 7 skateboard bearings, some bolts, washers that I bent into a cone shape with a ball peen hammer and socket, and some angle aluminum.

It just uses the bike's axle to ride on the bearings. You can line it up so that the axle rides pretty straight on the bearings, but it doesn't have to be perfect. Worked well for me!

balancer - overall
balancer - one side - closer
balacer from inside
balancer from side

I'm cheap and a DIY'er if at all possible! Sometimes I get lazy though and just pay up.

[dbeardslee]

Yadada - I LIKE IT! I've got a couple of jack stands that are almost identical. Where'd you get the skateboard bearings?

DB