Finally had a minute to ride....bike wouldn't start

[AlanB]

Hi Manshack,

The loop on #10 fits over the tongue on the float; My early carbs do not have it; the later ones do.

Sort of thing that a clumsy PO would lose?....

I guess that 8+9 are a choice of mainjets??

I got most of the bits, but what is 11??

AlanB

[mro]

but what is 11??

Must be a 650 thing wanting to be an 11

What other work a PO say's they have done would take with a "grain of salt".
The BS34 carb parts that can "wear out" (other than phisically damaged) are the seats/needles, jets, springs and diaphram. Most of the time just the float needle and seat be the problem.

Attension to detail. I use a white piece of paper placed behind the carbs for contrast and check float height with a magnifing glass. (getting old sucks, but there be work arounds)

One guys carbs I "reworked" said he'd had em off a dozen times and still couldn't get em dialed in. When I checked, the floats were at slighly different heights and two floats were tweeked where one side was higher than the other. Differences were small but enough to cause problems.


mro

[oldnortonrider]

Here is pic of the type kit you need; I use this type kit, also, instead of the type you're showing. http://crc2onlinecatalog.com:80/imag...1100E78-01.GIF
............as you can see in pic~~pilot screw is different, float needle is different, and float needle seat screws in with a gasket.

Here is the page that you can scroll down on, they'll have all the Yamaha kits; $23.95 per kit > http://www.crc2onlinecatalog.com/Index_Main_Frame.htm

When I say, "...pic of the type kit you need........"; I'm guessing your carb type is type with brass floats which does not use the type float needle with plastic micron tip, and "spring type catch" that hooks to ~~ I think it's a plastic float. And (I may be wrong on this), I think, all the plastic float carbs, are the ones using the "push-in" float needle seat with O-ring. Two different kits with all sorts of different pieces, as you can see when you pull up the pics. Some times some of the pieces are interchangeable; I think the gasket is, but definitely not the float needle seats. I think the "plastic-tip" needle was a tad "too snug" in float needle seat chamber, when I tried to see what the fit would be (ten years ago); and I'm thinking I found information, here a while back, that it was a bit longer.

I'm still not real good on pics (but I will be), or I would just stick the two different kits and all the pieces on here. Neat, the way you numbered your parts in the kit; I dunno how to do that yet.

[oldnortonrider]

That second clickie's not taking you all the way to the page I was trying for. When that "second clickie" page shows (index main page)~~to the left is a column of page locations > click onto fuel system parts~~now click onto carb kits and scroll down to nearly bottom of page.

[oldnortonrider]

I buy a lot of my stuff from DennisKirk; but don't trust their carb kit numbers to be the right one for the particular year model that they're saying that it goes to. This is true for some other sites that you could get a rebuild carb kit for. DennisKirk shows the following kit/parts for the '78 XS11 Standard~~part no.17-0965; .



DennisKirk shows two other different kits for 79-81 Standards and Specials.
I have a '79 Standard and an '81Special~~what DennisKirk is showing above in pic (if you pull all the part nos. up on their site, so you can see pics of the parts in the individual kits) ~~is that the pic/kit above is for '78Standard only. Both, my 79Standard and the 81Special have same type set of carbs. They can be repaired with kit in above pic, that they're calling is for 78 only. What they show in the catalog and on their site for repair for my 79 and the 81 is not the right kit(s). Of course, I would never know what's happened here, if I had the catalog only, because the catalog doesn't let you get the pictures to match up to the part numbers (on the carb kits).

I could say more, here, to maybe un -confuse, what I've so far expounded on, but I imagine whoever's seriously interested, has got the so-called gist of it.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey OldNortonRider,

IF you can use the same carb kit for your 81 AND your 79, then someone else put on the later model carbs on your 79! Does your 79 set have the 4 small ports on the inlet bell? Does it have 1 set or 2 sets of "T's" between the carbs?? IF it takes the kit for the 81 with the press in float needle seat, then it's the later carb set!!


AS for part #11, that's the cap that seals the pilot screw tower on the top front of the bike, the thing that folks have to DRILL thru and remove on their 80-81 carbs to gain access to their pilot screws. Imagine someone actually wanting to PLUG it back up?
T.C.

[oldnortonrider]

I've got the carbs that have the two "T"s between 1&2 and 3&4. With screw-in-type float needle seats. ALL eight carbs. Brass floats. All brass float needles.

The jet sizes are not identical (been 10 years since rebuild). Fixin' to do rebuild again, and sync, in near future. I'm thinking PO may have put different set of carbs from another year model on the 81 before I got it. Also, suspect mulltiple POs had this machine, before I got it 14 years ago.

One of the rebuild kits I got for my carbs (10) years ago, was from the Yamaha dealer. Of course I told him specifically 1981 "Special". Dang; when I had everything laid out on table~~wrong rebuild kit with "push in float needle seat with O-ring". I had the spare set of carbs from the 79, so everything cleaned up, and went together just fine. I did use the gasket from the rebuild kit.

TC, you mentioned, (I think it was above in this thread) the difference in the two types of carbs~~the numbers of the holes in the fronts of the throats. I would run out and check the number of holes; it's rainin'~storming right now. But you're knowing which carbs I've got by number of "T"s I've got. Top Ts are vent tubes.

[TopCatGr58]

Okay Carlton,

I just didn't want ManShack to get confused with your info. You've got early model carbs on your 81 so that's why you can use the above kit for it AND your 78.

Whereas the number game kit he showed that fits his carbs are for the 80-81 carbs, which it seems he has on his 80 frame with a 79 engine. The kit you showed is correct for the 78-79 OEM carbs, just wanted to be sure it was clear for Manshack!
T.C.

[oldnortonrider]

Yeah.........., I'd be leadin' him astray, not realizing til now~~I've got early model carbs on my 81.............

I appreciate your patience, really, with my own confusion.

Another correction I caught myself in~~not a brass float needle; it's steel.

It also, appears, maybe I got lucky, not having to start out with the carbs that have the O-ring around float needle seat for me to be plagued with the expansion and shrinking problem that I'm hearing about on here~~causing leaking (??).........

[DJinNH]

Originally posted by Ken Talbot
If it has leaked enough to get raw gas on the airbox side of a carb, there's a very good chance it has leaked the other way too. Chances are you now have a crankcase full of gas/oil mix. It may be a very good thing your engine did not start! Thinned down oil would be a good way to spin the bottom end bearings. Check your oil level, dip some out on a stick, and check for gas before you do anything more.

Yesterday, I hooked up my fuel lines, put a small amount of gas in just incase we found a leak. No leaks so we started it. Within about 30 secs or more, I had a weak stream of fuel coming out of the bottom of my airbox so we shut it down immediately. We even had a fire extinguisher just in case.

I got real frustrated but my friend who has a XS1100SH said his bike was doing the same until he had his carbs rebuilt. I already have an appointment for the bike to go in the shop tomorrow for a carb rebuild so hopefully it won't be an issue.

Ken, thanks for the info, I guess I will have the mechanic change out the new oil I just put in so I don't have any fuel in there.

Don

[manshack_one]

Originally posted by TopCatGr58
Okay Carlton,

I just didn't want ManShack to get confused with your info. You've got early model carbs on your 81 so that's why you can use the above kit for it AND your 78.

Whereas the number game kit he showed that fits his carbs are for the 80-81 carbs, which it seems he has on his 80 frame with a 79 engine. The kit you showed is correct for the 78-79 OEM carbs, just wanted to be sure it was clear for Manshack!
T.C.

Yep I'm confused now for sure...
My carbs have two vents going to the airbox and 2 lines going to the petcocks. But I recognize the parts from the kit ONR put up.

[DJinNH]

Originally posted by manshack_one



Yep I'm confused now for sure...
My carbs have two vents going to the airbox and 2 lines going to the petcocks. But I recognize the parts from the kit ONR put up.

You should see the path I wore walking from my SG to my SH and back to see how things were suppose to go together. Nothing like learning as you go.

Don

[manshack_one]

Unless anyone disagrees it would appear I have early model carbs. 2 sets of T's between the carbs and the '78 kit matches what I remember being in there.

[manshack_one]

Ok, here's another reference point. Both of these kits from Z1 look like what's in my carbs. The only difference is the second one has a brass washer that I don't remember seeing.

http://www.z1enterprises.com/detail.aspx?ID=489

Brass Ring: http://www.z1enterprises.com/detail.aspx?ID=500

Like I said, they both look right but I don't want to end up with the wrong kit. Plus I'm guessing the jets are all going to be the same straight across by swapping all 4 with the same kit number. I'd like to order this today if possible. Thanks.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Manshack,

Both kits have the same parts except for the latter with the extra brass ring, so order the one with the brass ring/washer, same price, and you'll have an extra part! I think the washer is part of the pilot screw assembly, to go beneath the spring against the carb body, to keep the spring end from gouging the body!?!?

I noticed the part #'s use KL....which might be K&L, and folks have reported problems with K&L pilot jets as part of their carb kits as being the wrong size/style and running Xsively rich compared to true Mikuni pilot jets! The photos "look" like the correct pilot jets, with the aeration holes in the sides, and the correct taper tip, but there is a good diagram on MikesXS about the difference between the VM pilot jets and the BS jets, the size of the internal opening and the location of the constriction within the jet!!!

I didn't reread this thread, can't recall if your pilot jets are bunged up, if not, keep them and closely compare the new ones to them, cause you may need to go back to them!?
T.C.