Tubeless tires on a tubetype rim?

[jeffe]

Has anyone used a tube type rim, like what is on my 78E, with a tube?

[DiverRay]

I have run the early rims, and ALWAYS put a tube in the tire. You CAN put a tube in ANY tire, and some members here have run the tubeless tire as tubeless on the early rims. I ride hard, and FAST, so I looked and got later rims and now use those.
I don't know IF the rim is different, but it should be! Usually tubeless rims not only seal the inside, but the bead area is shaped and sized a little differently. At triple digit speeds, I DON'T want to find out it does not work.

[81xsproject]

wheels go cheap on ebay. Get yourself a set of later, tubeless rims if you want tubeless.

[AustinPhoenix]

tubeless

I have a 79 special and 80 g. MY special has a tubeless and the g doesn't for some reason. The difference on these is there are flat spots on the inside of the tubeless rim where there used to be holes for valves, but they're filled in/never been punched out.

You can see it in every picture where there's a small flat spot on the inside of the rim. There are three of them equidistant apart from each other.

The yamaha shop I went to here told me that they wouldn't recommend doing anything to rig it to hold a tubeless tire (ie have them filled). He just sold me a new tube (12 bucks) since I had a flat, but a new tire.

I'm a newbie and don't know everything. That's just my observation from looking at both wheels in my garage. If you would like pics...PM me.

[pete_s]

I think the flat spots on the rim were for the bead locks studs. My 78 still has them and they are probably eliminated to make the rim airtight. Anyone know for sure?

[stevec5000]

Tubeless tires work fine on so called tube type rims since there is no difference in the rims. Some people will try to tell you there is some magical ridge or something inside the wheel on later models but I've set all mine side by side to compare them and there's no difference so tubeless tires work fine. The ridges are on car wheels that are much wider. The older Yamaha wheels weren't marked as suitable for tubeless tires since tubeless tires were not in use yet so they would have had to predict the future to make them that way. Some people will also try to tell you the older rims won't hold air but that's not true either. If they don't hold air it's because the bead area has been scratched up from using steel tire tools and the edge will need to be filed and sanded smooth so the tire has a good smooth surface to seal against.
I wouldn't put a tube in any kind of wheel unless it was a steel spoked wheel that didn't hold air.

[AustinPhoenix]

Steve,

PM me for pics if you want to see the difference between the two. One has 3 holes, the other has one.

[Jerry]

This topic has come up many times before. From a previous post:
***********
The original US release of the XS 11 used tube-type wheels with rim locks (clamps). There are two extra holes in the rims for the lock's stems to poke through. Both early rear 16 and 17 inch rims were tube-type. Not sure about front, my understanding is that they were all tubeless. Both rear sizes were later issued in a tubless design.

In any case, when this topic has come up before, some have claimed success in mounted tubeless tires on tube-type rims. I wouldn't do it. First, you have to plug the rim lock holes. Second, I found a couple articles that indicated there are differences in the bead area between the two style rims.

Dunlop has this to say:

"Mount tires as tubeless only when the wheel manufacturer recommends it. Some spokeless rims require tubes. With a tube inserted, a tubeless tire may be fitted to a tube-type wheel."

From a BMW group:

1. Except for airheads that came from the factory with tubeless tires, most all others came from the BMW factory with tubes and the rims have WM-2 shapes. That is a particular shape of primarily the inside of the rim. The WM2 shape does not have the 5 degree angle increase of the tubeless rims...on the bottom area and side area...that the tire bead rests against.

Metzer recommends using tubes when mounting a tubeless tire on a tube-type rim:
"METZELER tubeless tires may be used with METZELER tubes on tube type rims."

From a Brit site:

"I was surfin on-line for info on tube/tubeless rims
and found the above British website on Continental
tyres with some good detailed explanations of rims and
tyres.

One of our members (Steve C.?) in the last summary
mail list digest was able to line up tube vs tubeless
rims in his garage and saw no differences. Per the
illustration on Tyre Rims on the above website, is it
possible that you didn't notice the small lip or
greater diameter area on the deeper inside of the rim
shoulder intended to prevent the bead from slipping
into the rim deep center inside area in the event of
serious air loss as in blowout? The illustration also
displays the squared off deep center inside tubeless
rim vs the rounded tube type rim without the inside
rim lip."

From Continental Tire site:

Tyre rims
In the past the development of tyre and
rim technology has led to various rim constructions.
One for tubeless tyres and the other for
tubetype tyres.
For tyres which use an inner-tube, that is tubetype
tyres, the WM rim is used (fig 1).
First, the MT rim (without illustration) was developed
for tubeless tyres then the humped MT H2
rim (fig 2). The hump prevents the tyre from slipping
down to the well in case of an air loss."

The info, as well as the figures mentioned above showing the differences in tube/tubeless rims, is in the downloadable (.pdf format) Continental tyre manual at:
http://www.contionline.com/generato...e/index_en.html

Riding is risky enough without taking a chance on your choice of rims / tire combination. If you want to go tubeless on your earlier XS11, check around or look on eBay for tubless rims. They are a straight bolt-on swap (provided you stay with the same size) for the tube-style rims.
***************
The several resources quoted above all claim the rims are different. While it is possible Yamaha chose a different path, I find that idea highly unlikely. In any event, why risk it? Tubeless rims come up from various scurces for not a lot of money. If you want to run tubeless tires, get tubless-certified rims.

[dbeardslee]

I've got tubeless tires on my '79 and the front is a tube type rim. Holds air fine. I read in another post that the danger in a tubeless tire on a tube rim is that, if you have a flat, the tire can come off the rim. This being the case, I don't think it matters if you have a tube in it or not. Big problem if it happens on the front wheel. The tubeless rims for the front are marked "suitable for tubeless tires" on one of the spokes.

[mro]

One of the Factory manual 's covers 78 to 80's.
Specificly states not to run tubless on early models but does not have the warning for the later models.

Works for me.


mro

[AustinPhoenix]

Money...

Just buy new wheels if you want tubeless tires. A set of wheels off ebay is relatively cheap compared to the relative cost of...oh I dunno...your life.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Vinta...spagenameZWDVW

I don't know if this is tubeless but you get the idea. Hope it helps.

[Jerry]

Sorry, link to continental tires needs a dash in it. Corret URL is:
http://www.conti-online.com/generato...manual_en.html

Go to page 145 for the rim information.

[Pat Kelly]

If you run tubeless tires on a rim marked Not Suitable For Tubeless Tires (or something like that) and have an accident, and an insurance adjuster sees it, they may not be required to pay any claims.
Just a thought.

[AlanB]

Hi Guys,



Thes three rims are (Right to Left).. First, a (euro) XJ900 4.00x17 rim. this is a "proper tubeless rim. The raised safety beads can clearly be seen.

Middle is a tubeless front rim from my SG, left is a tube-type front from a standard. I cannot see any difference between the two front rims, but I am not sure I would see five degrees.

I would follow the markings on the rim, but beads of the tyre seem to come off the tubed and tubeless XS rims equally easily.

Shifting the tyre off the XJ9 rim is MUCH more difficult.

AlanB