Super angry, darn local shop!

[psycoreefer]

Well I went and purchased tires at a local shop on tuesday, I decided to have them go ahead and mount the tires, but I took the wheels off.

Got em back today and put the bike all back together, then went for a short ride and had a funny bounce. Started looking more carefully when I got back and the front tire isn't mounted properly, the line that your supposed to be able to see isn't visible at all about 1/2 way around the tire.

I'm so mad right now... I've got to take the wheels back off, take them back to the shop and not ride to work for two more days. They better make this right...ugh!

[bikerphil]

seating tires

Had that exact problem before. One time I had to put about 60-70 Psi in there to get it to seat. It you try this, just stand back cause you never know. Once it's seated, release air to normal pressure. A little dish soap around the unseated area wouldn't hurt either. HTH

[prometheus578]

Common problem

They better make this right...ugh!

They will...
Should have been caught while mounting/balancing, but things happen.
What brand o' tire was it?
I refused to mount Continentals after a while. Made the part's guy stop selling them, for this very problem.

[oldnortonrider]

I had this happen to a new tire, that I mounted on the front 2 years ago~~about 18 inches not beaded up right. I figured if I rode it, it would bead out, maybe. Well, it didn't, and it was a bad bounce. Back to my work area, I proceeded to think how I might get the bead right without pulling the wheel off, and having to maybe pull the tire off the rim. Before I tell you what I did, let me tell you what I have learned since with several other tire mounting jobs, that's made me a better tire mounter. I've acquired several different tire tools, and I use special tire mounting soap. The soap is $14.00 for a gallon at "Bumper-to-Bumper". At the time of the "bead problem" I was putting the tire on with using a spray bottle of light soap, but it wasn't adequate to get the tire to settle in. Also, I had a tube in this front tire; may be a little trickier to do this with tubeless, cuz you'll probably have to lose your bead seal to get it lubed enough without pulling the wheel off. I got the front end raised~~no weight on the tire~~let all the air out of the tire, and got some hand cleaner goo handy with a small paint brush; with a tire tool I pried and held the non-seated part away from the rim, and sloshed the slick stuff down as best I could, getting about 24 inches well saturated. And then proceeded to air the tire up; 50psi: no movement. I was really mad; I put on my helmet and a thick coat, pulled down my eye protection, and got my little electric pump to pumpin' away. Barely could see some bead movement at 100psi, but it seemed to s-l-o-w-l-y be moving. I ran it to 110 psi, and got off away from it, but within seeing distance. It took about an hour and it was where it should be. I let the air down to about 35psi; it rode fine. This was an unpleasant experience, that I wanted to avoid forever happening again, and that was the reason I decided to "experiment" with the "$14.00" liquid soap. When it dries, you don't gotta worry about it slicken something up again, when it gets wet again, if you didn't get it all off; matter of fact it is like a "resin" affect of the tire to the rim when it dries. I've nearly always had "bead seating" problems with my tire changes. I don't have the problem anymore. Hope this gives you a glimmer of hope.

[cloerts]

I saw a guy on discovery channel driving through the artic seal a bead by laying the tire flat on the ground, pouring fuel along the bead and then lighting it. The expansion of the exploding gases sealed the bead immediately, no compressor needed. Of course he had to put some air in it before he could drive again, but it looked like a pretty cool way to get the job done, not to safe though.

[prometheus578]

I recall from my gas station days using starter fluid. Spray inside the tire, stand back and throw matches at it.
Not to be recommended.
Some tires mount up in five minutes.
Some have actually taken an hour and a half due to bead problems.
I don't enjoy over pressurizing them.
In a closed garage, an exploding inner tube sounds like an artillery shot... lost my hearing for 6 weeks.

[planedick]

Seems like

The $22 I spend at Cycle Gear to mount and balance was well spent. I did a flat fix on a tube tire once here in the garage and since have vowed to not do that again if at all possible....

[bikerphil]

mounting tires

I always mount my own tires. I know they will be 100% right that way. I've seen so many hacks in shops mount tires wrong that it scares me. Peace of mind is a beautiful thing. Just my opinion.

[psycoreefer]

something smells fishy....

Short version:
went in, they said I should run no less then 40lbs in both tires. Dunlap D404 by the way. Seems fishy, what do you all run in your tires?

Long version:
well I called them when they opened at 10:00 and they said bring it by and we will see if we can fix it on the bike. So I went in. Got there and oh, the mechanic had something come up and won't be here till noon, but lets take a look.

The "parts" guy said looks kinda soft how much air is in there? I told them 28, like the MOM says it should have. "oh thats way to soft, these new tires need more pressure, its different technology then when they built the bike. I asked how I should know what pressure to run and they said its on the tire. I asked but doesn't that say "maximum pressure", not recommended pressure. They said well yeah, but you need to be close to that for these "new tires". I said well if you can get it to come out on the bead I'll give it a try.

While I watched he inflated the tire to well over 100lbs (the tire gauge had a stopper for the needle about 1/4" past 100) before it came out on the bead. Also talked to the mechanic on the phone and found out he "had to put a tube in the front because it wouldn't seat on the bead without the tube." After that he let it back down to 38 and said 38 will give you a good ride, for a more "sporty" feel blow it up to 42 - 45. I almost asked if it was safe to go over the "maximum" on the side wall but decided to just keep it to myself. He also told me to keep an eye on it to make sure it doesn't leak, because I might have ruined the tire and tube by running it so low. After they told me to "ride it in so they could look at it". I just decided to get out of there, guess they are good for parts only in the future.

I rode it to work and the bounce is gone but I'm pretty sure I shouldn't be running 40'ish lbs in the tires all the time. I always thought it was like cars, where you go by whats on the door post, not what the max tire pressure on the sidewall is but I could be wrong. Just seems fishy that they couldn't get the bead to seat without a tube and that letting it down to 28 made the bead come loose.

Shouldn't the bead be hard to break, so the tire doesn't fall off if it blows out, or someone forgets to check the pressure?

Do you all run the 40'ish lbs or do you run what the manual says?

Anyone running 404's at less then 40?

When I get home I'm going to try letting some air out of it to see if it comes back off the bead again.

Guess next time I'll do what I normally do and buy the tools I need and do it myself, it usually takes me a little longer then a shop but I know its done right.

-Brian

[Jerry]

Tire pressure is kind of a hot topic. Ther is no "Best" answer. I run Dunlop Elite 3 back, Elite 2 front, run 40 psi rear and 36 front. However, this is for a bike with a full Vetter fairing and saddlebags, and I go 265 lbs with gear on. In other words, a heavy load.

In any case I would not drop below 30 psi front or back...those numbers sound low to me. The XS / XJ is a heavy bike, around 560 pounds without fluids, and run on what would now be considered skinny tires.

Underinflation is worse than overinflation, overheats the tire and degrades handling. I would stay in the low 30s front, mid-30s for rear at a minimum, but it depends on the tire manufacturer recommendations, load, and riding style. 40 psi should be the top end.

[bikerphil]

pressure

Hey psycoreefer, I'm glad you got it all straightened out. I'm not running 404's, but I run usually 30 front and 30 rear. Just remember that the higher pressure you run, the smaller your footprint is. I'd rather have more tire on the road than less. Keep a close eye on your pressure till you're sure of no leaks. I could tell you some horror stories about this subject, but I won't go there now. Good luck!

[psycoreefer]

I sent an e-mail to dunlop asking what their recommended pressure is, I couldn't find it on their website for the 404's. I'll post up whatever response I get.

I'm not a light weight myself, but my bike is naked, so maybe they are right and I should be running close to 40lbs.

[prometheus578]

"Like Jerry said..."

All depends on the tire, the bike and the riding style.
What's good for one may not feel good for the other.
The number on the tire is what the maker feels will give the best performance from the tire.
The number on the bike is what the maker feels will give the best performance for the bike.
A lot of leeway involved.
A performance "ride" may not be a comfortable "ride", etc.
Lower pressure will give more traction.. but will wear the tire.
Higher pressure the tire may last longer, but give a "harder" ride.
Working in a shop.. who knows just how the customer rides his machine nor what he expects.
Shops tend to use "rules of thumb" because of this.
Ours was:
Crotch rockets... 32front, 34rear
Cruisers... 34 front, 36 rear.
Heavy bikes... 36 front, 38 rear.

I'm comfortable with 34/36. I pump it up for cross country rides carrying baggage.

40psi I think is too much

[yadada]

Ru-glyde is the tire lubricant I use. About the same price as mentioned before. Works great! That gallon of stuff will do a lot of tires!

I run what the manual says, 26/28. I think that is what it says for a light load. I have a terrible time remembering that, so I wrote it on a note and put it on the garage wall! My bike only has a small winsheild and me most of the time, less than 200 lbs total. Almost 15K on a set of Elite 3s now.

[fredintoon]

Don't shop there any more eh?

Hi Brian,
You got a tubeless tire and they put a tube in it? Because it wouldn't seat without one? And they say to run it at over the mfrs recommended maximum pressure?
What a crock of horse manure. If a tire don't seat after being properly soaped and perhaps some overpressure it's a bad tire. Admittedly even after a good soaping I've sometimes had to push them to 100psi and wait a while before they popped out properly but HTF shoving a tube in there would help the tire bead to seat, I dunno.
Have no fear that 100psi cold & static is a hazard; just don't run it like that. If a tire is set at (say) 35psi cold and ridden on a hot day it will overpressure as ambient conditions and road friction heat it and then if it hits a kerb or a pothole I betcha it momentarily goes way over 100psi and how often have we all done just that?. BTW on the sidecar rig I run the front at 35psi and the back at 50psi.