Clutch Shaft Problem

[prometheus578]

"Using vomit for Loctite."

3 hours and 3 Crown and Cokes later... I removed the current engine from the bike and got them both thrown up on...

Seems you hold your liquor about as well as you hold a wrench.
Try doing the work sober next time.

[trbig]

As shown in your hockey pic..... it's not NEARLY so bad on the throwup-er... as it is the throwup-ees!

Try doing the work sober next time.

Not nearly as much fun that way! The skinned knuckles don't hurt as bad either... lol.


Tod

[XSPastor]

I don't think that I agree that the bearing is pressed onto that shaft and has come loose. The bearing should slide easily on and off the shaft. Was the shim on the other end of the shaft missing? That shim is what determines the side play. I'm guessing that shim is missing.

Tim

[trbig]

I have never noticed any play before, and that is the only thing that would actually keep it from moving if the basket isn't installed. This other shaft I put in there IS pressed on. The bearings on both ends have the retainer clip on the outside of the bearing, but the smaller one slides freely.

Both of these shafts had the same parts all installed in the same order. So... whether it's supposed to be pressed on or not... the one that is in the motor now is.

Tod

[79XS11F]

Originally posted by XSPastor
I don't think that I agree that the bearing is pressed onto that shaft and has come loose. The bearing should slide easily on and off the shaft. Was the shim on the other end of the shaft missing? That shim is what determines the side play. I'm guessing that shim is missing.

Tim

I'm also not sure if that bearing is pressed on but I did notice that in the manual it says "remove this bearing if necessary" If that bearing could simply be slid off like all the other that the manual says to remove, I don't think they would add that note. In any case there is nothing in the manual about it's removal if it is pressed on.
Rob

[XSPastor]

Yeah, I think you're right 79XS11F, upon further investigation, I agree that it is probably pressed onto the shaft because of the note you mention from the manual but how in the world does it become worn? I have never seen that happen. Was the play in the bearing, or was the bearing actually sliding on the shaft?

Tim

[XSPastor]

I don't know why I didn't think of this before... I have an extra transmission in the garage. I examined that shaft and that bearing is definitely pressed onto it. I stand corrected. It still seems very much more likely in my mind that the play would be in the bearing and not the bearing sliding on the shaft. Hey trbig, what about it? Have you had a chance to examine the bearing to determine if the bearing was sliding on the shaft or if the bearing itself was worn?

[79XS11F]

I would have to agree with that conclusion. How could it become loose on the shaft it it does not move on that shaft. Unless.... the bearing seized, even if only for a moment, and the shaft spun inside the inner race. Ether way, the bearing would have to be TOAST.
Rob

[trbig]

???? Just one of those things we'll never know I guess. I have inspected both the shaft and the bearing mating surfaces and they still look just fine.. no heat marks, scoring, chatter marks or anything. I don't think the bearing could feel smoother. It isn't just free spinning like it's wore out... just feels like a good solid bearing.

It still makes me wonder about a possible slightly bent shaft causing it to vibrate and wallow it out a touch. One of these days, I'll check the run-out on it somehow because I am curious also.

Tod

[trbig]

I have the probable answer on this clutch bearing issue. If you look at the parts diagram, you'll see the 2 washers listed as #18 and #3 at the bottom of the picture.




These washers will interchange, so you need to pay attention. As you can see from the shaft bearing, it is an open bearing, not a sealed one, and relies on motor oil for lubrication.




In this pic, I have placed the proper washer onto the shaft next to the bearing. Notice that there is a gap and you can see the ball bearings around the edge... meaning oil can get in there.



In this next pic, you can see the wrong washer installed. It totally closes off the front face of the bearing, making it only able to get oil on it if splashed from the gears behind it.





Looking at this pic, you can see the heat marks on the washer. I didn't notice this initially as I was only looking at the shaft and bearing. So I would have to agree that it got hot and siezed for a split second. Since there are no marks on the mating surfaces of either part, I can only assume it was a quick thing.... but could have been very bad. Along with the Clip on the outer surface of the bearing, there is also a pin. I imagine those smart fellers in white lab coats may have realized this was a possibility, so this pin would keep the whole bearing from spinning in the case housing and ruining the case in a situation like this.

A really quick no-brainer check for this is... if you can pull this washer off the shaft with the oil pump gear installed, you have the correct one. If it hits the gear and can't be removed without removing the gear... you have the wrong one on there.


So...... Methinks Mr. Rob wins the prize today! lol. I hope my ignorance helps someone else.

[XSPastor]

Hey trbig,

Great pictures and excellent diagnosis! Makes me want to pull my side cover and make sure I didn't switch those washers the last time I rebuilt my clutch. Great... another thing to worry about!

Tim

[prometheus578]

"There, but for the grace of God, go I."

I hope my ignorance helps someone else.

It's always brightened my day.

[trbig]

I went out for a little test ride today... that ended up being a 150 mile "Test".. lol. This is the smoothest motor I have ever had in this bike. The "Buzz" in the handlebars is gone, my hands didn't fall asleep like normal, and I didn't get oil puked on my left boot from the crank seal every time I got on it a bit.

The carbs need synching and my neutral light isn't coming on... making it necessary to hold the clutch in every time I start it. But it's rideable for now.

I'm headed out in the morning over into Arkansas to meet a couple members from the forum here. It'll be at least a 1k mile weekend for me if everything holds together. I'll take some pics and post them in the ride reports section.


Tod

[79XS11F]

I'm also wondering now but I usually stack my parts the way they came off whatever I'm working on. I will however HAVE to check that so I can sleep at night.
Rob

[79XS11F]

I was thinking about this the other day and I really don't want to pull my exhaust system, clutch cover etc to check this and it dawned on me ( see light bulb over my head) :-) If in fact the larger washer can not be placed on the clutch shaft while the oil pump idler gear is in place, I MUST have the correct washer installed against that bearing. When I rebuilt both my engines the clutch was the last item I installed on that side of the engine. This being the case the idler gear would have been installed already so ONLY the smaller DIA washer would fit. I would remember having to remove the idler gear to install the larger DIA washer if I had mixed them up.
I'm content that I'm good to go.
Rob