Torx screws

[trbig]

I don't know if anyone else has the problems I do with those #$%* Torx screws. The T-30 bit I have doesn't quite fit the screw heads and I usually end up striping out at least one every time I go in to the motor

I took one of the Torx screws to compare to my local hardware store. I found these philips head screws of the same size. Just thought I'd share...





Also, I FINALLY took John's suggestion and used 4 large hose clamps as ring compressors. I broke a ring last time I tried to install them, so I was a bit leary to do this part of the job. I smeared some grease around the inside of the hose clamp to help it slide down the piston and avoid scratching the skirt. Worked like a charm.... 3 times! lol.

First screw up... I realized the head and cylinder both had a brass guide in the same corner... off it comes. 2nd try, one of the cam chain guides stayed outside the head... back off. Third time's the charm.

Tod

[hobbsy84]

Yeah, those Torx screws are a pretty terrible thing when they dont want to play the game. I had to drill one out on mine the other day when it stripped out.
Wish they had just put the philips head screws like you have in originally...

[Ken Talbot]

Torx or phillips, you really need to use an impact driver to avoid stripping out the heads. Impact driver should be considerd a "must have" tool for working on these bikes.

[trbig]

I use an impact on them on removal, but with the torx screws, I either strip one or more or it breaks the brittle fins on the bit. These phillips heads I just installed will take the large size phillips bit for my impact, so I shouldn't have that problem any more. SHOULDN'T being the imperitive word here... lol


Tod

[xschop]

torx screws

Been a few years, But when I did the 2nd gear fix. I remember replacing those with allen (hex) key screws from Ace hardware. I used blue thread locker too...JAT

[TopCatGr58]

Wow Ken,

I'm surprised to hear about you having problems with Torx bolts? Yes, I can see the need for an impact driver...which I don't have! But I also know the results of using an improperly fitting/inferiorly made Torx bit vs. a good quality one!

When I did my first Tranmission fix, I too stripped out 1 of the torx screws holding down the bearing cover and had to drill it out also! But I had stripped it with an inferiorly fitting bit!

I then went to the store and found a quality torx bit that had the splines ground/cut all the way to the END of the bit, not ROUNDED OFF, and it fit perfectly, and had plenty of grip to use a small ratchet wrench on, and was easily able to overcome the previously applied locktite to get it removed.

I did have to get a phillips head screw to replace the one drilled out. Chop, my concern with using an allen/hex head screw is that it isn't countersunk, and the use of the countersunk screws/bolts I think is part of what helps to position the part properly?? I could be wrong??

I even included a rather poor quality photo explaining the need for a GOOD torx bit in the Tranny Repair Pictorial!


What's that old phrase, the proper tool for the proper job!
T.C.

[xschop]

Oh brother

Yes, the allen heads are countersunk/metric (read about $1 ea) but well worth it. I do agree with TC about the chinese torx designed bits. I use nothing but Craftsman...Still haven't fried one....Just be glad Yamaha didn't go with the STAR bit pattern like you see on the drivelines of some Porsches/ Audi/ VW's

[fredintoon]

Try these:-

"I don't know if anyone else has the problems I do with those #$%* Torx screws. The T-30 bit I have doesn't quite fit the screw heads and I usually end up striping out at least one every time I go in to the motor"
>
Hi Tod,
swapping Torx heads for Phillips heads is a bad thought. Phillips heads are designed to cam-out where Torx are designed not to. Seems to me that your own tried & trusty T-30 bit is best used for slingshot ammo and you should go buy a good one instead. Or, check out these guys:-
http://www.bestnutsbolts.com/ferry.html
The Ferry cap screw reduced external bi-hex head uses all the grooves of a 12-point socket.

[bikerphil]

screws

Whatever type of screws you all use, make sure to use threadlock blue, especially on the countershaft bearing cap screws. Just my $ .02

[trbig]

Fred,

No idea what cam-out means, but I buy good T-30 bits. Several of them in the last few years. I guess you don't realize how many times I've been in and out of these motors.


The book does recommend thread lock, but I have never used any on these screws. I know of others that don't either. I've had lots of problems with lots of things, but those loosening isn't one of them. I'm not telling you NOT to, but I have just personally never seen a NEED to. Just an opinion, and we all know what those are worth.


Tod

[fredintoon]

Cam-out

" No idea what cam-out means, but I buy good T-30 bits. Several of them in the last few years. "
Hi Tod,
if you buy good T-30 bits and they don't fit the screws the screws must be wrong?
"Cam-out" is when a Phillips screwdriver just lifts out of the cruciform drive slot rather than turn the screw. To quote Bill Gates "That's not a flaw, that's a feature." That is, Phillips heads are supposed to work like that so that self-tapping screws can't be over-torqued and strip out when assembling sheet-metal parts. It's those foolish fellows who put Phillips heads on machine screws who annoy me.

[John]

Re: Cam-out

Originally posted by fredintoon
" It's those foolish fellows who put Phillips heads on machine screws who annoy me.

Fred, haven't you ever gouged the $#it out of your hand/fingers with a straight slot screw driver? Ever mess up a piece of wood that you were driving a screw into because the driver slipped out of the slot, and gouged the wood? I think machine screws with a phillips head is a godsend, plus I think the phillips head is more astetic (better looking) if it is visible. Ever see a straight slot screw securing the trim in the interior of a car? If one has a quality tool, then messing up the head is not a major problem. Ever try using a straight slot driver bit in an electric screwdriver? Not pretty. I realize that the powered driver can hog out the phillips head also, but an experienced hand should have no trouble with that.

[fredintoon]

But I hate the bastard things

Hi John,
yes, the straight screwdriver has been with us since the early iron age and yes, it's use is not for the unskilled or the timid.
But you ever tried opening a paint can with a Phillips? But seriously, Robertson, Allen or Torx heads don't cam out while Phillips heads are specifically designed to do just that. In a fix'n'forget application like self-tapping screws in ventilation ducting the Phillips is king. On a threaded fastener that has to be removed & replaced for maintenance they are among the worst possible choices.

[John]

Re: But I hate the bastard things

Originally posted by fredintoon
Hi John,
But you ever tried opening a paint can with a Phillips?

It's easy! Just hold the handle real tight and slam the point down onto the lid. That will 'open' it up. You can do the same with a spray can, also, but just make sure you close your eyes when you do it.

[Ken Talbot]

Re: But I hate the bastard things

Originally posted by fredintoon
But seriously, Robertson, Allen or Torx heads don't cam out while Phillips heads are specifically designed to do just that.

Ah, but remember Fred, John comes from a land where Robertson is pretty much a foreign word and concept, eh.