the $64,000 question is....

[ross]

the external "octy"....

hey there folks...the latest news.....obkaybe....got the goodies and hooked her up.....mind you i didn't get to start this project until 9 pm and i had to ride her 2 work at 7am the next morning....no pressure....anywho, this setup is the schiznig.....works very well....as soon as i had it hooked up, i saw the error of my ways....all 4 carbs were off.....bread tie idea is no good....i made the setup to work so that all the the controls were mounted to the handlebars....






also while i was draining the gas tank, i went to open up the cap to get her 2 drain better....noticed that it was quite a noticable difference with the cap open...so, just 2 b sure, i tore the cap apart and made sure the vent was clear...i'm gonna replace the little spongy thing as soon as i can....photos just 2 show what it looks like torn apart....






well, i got the s*cker dialed in as best as i could.....considering i only had 2 hours to do it....the nice thing about this is that no matter how hard you blip the throttle, there is no harm, no foul....it's amazing just how touchy these carbs are....1/4 turn here and there and suddenly things start sounding really good.....sad to say with little time, i really didn't get picky with being exact....(it probably didn't help having a couple holy waters (bud dry) while i was doing the project)....got her close and threw a new plug in #1....ran her 2 work and back the next day...ran a lot better, but still had some coughs and burps...#1 plug is still running black....got her back home and hooked her back up again....noticed that the settings were off a bit...dialed her in again and got all 4 carbs set at 10 cm Hg.....sounds great....




gonna find out 2day as we are riding to meet renegade_xs11g out just past ann arbor (70 miles one way)....hopefully 2 get my new seat...also, while i was at the "zone", i purchased a laser thermometer....this is really a must have for checking pipes and cylinders....did notice that one side of the engine is running cooler than the other side, but right now i just want 2 get #1 fixed and firing correctly....also, renegade_xs11g mentioned to check the enricher valve and make sure it was clean and seating properly...pulled it apart and stretched the spring a little to make it seat better...seemed to idle a little better, so we will see.... i shall leave you with a final picture of the "external octy"...



thanx 2 all for the advice and will let u know how she runs later on this weekend.....ross

[D. P. Larmee]

Just a thought, but I had a very similar situation my bike and it turned out that the diaphram in the vacuum operated petcock had a leak and it was allowing gas to be sucked directly into the cylinder via the vacuum line. If you haven't yet, you may want to try to cap the vacuum port on the intake boot for that carb and on the petcock and just run the petcock on prime for a test.

[oldnortonrider]

heh-heh; carb sync > http://www.benefiscal.co.uk/forum/in...p?topic=2903.0

[ross]

i'm goin' nucking futs.....

hey there folks....ran her 147 miles saturday, and she ran pretty good...was doing 80-100 all the way there and back.....i still can't figure out why she is running rich in #1.....the mind boggles...

D. P. Larmee....was thinking about that, but it would only apply to #2 or #3....have had problems with the petcocks, went thru them numerous times....and now that i'm working on the carbs, the petcocks seem to be working fine....go figure......

oldnortonrider.....and i thought my rig was outlandish....if ya are gonna go that far, why not just setup an on-board computer to adjust everything on the fly....hehehehe...

i was thinking and reading....what if the PO went thru the carbs and grabbed the needle jet (not the jet needle) with a pair of needle nose pliers to remove it from the carb?.....really didn't dong on me, but going over all that i have seen, i did notice a slight flat spot on one of the needle jets....i'm pretty sure it was in #1....if so can ya tell me where to get one....i seen them on mikes xs, but just not sure which one to get....i could id it if it was in a lineup, but i know that such matters are touchy and require careful consideration and research......should i start by id-ing the carb or should i go with the clymer manual.....i'm pretty sure these are the original carbs that came with the bike....was thinking that it was a very slight spot, but would not a slight flat at the top of the needle jet (where it sticks up from the bottom of carb throat) cause the needle to hang up just a touch...thanx for all the help so far and if ya got any other ideas, please feel free to let me know...before i pull an "evil knevil" and do a canyon jump!!!....ross

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Ross,

The Needle Jets are rare, aside from finding used ones, folks were recommended to contact motorcyclecarbs.com, but not sure if that has been successful lately?? The ones from MikesXS will work, but they are DIFFERENT than the OEM XS11's, and so folks have felt it necessary to replace ALL 4 to try to keep them all matched for the same performance, fuel flow thru all of them!

Not sure if the alleged flat spot would cause trouble with the #1 carb, but being up there where the jet needle slides into it, and it's the ability for that needle to SEAL the opening, or at least narrow it down considerably to restict flow that controls things, and the flat spot might prevent the needle from sitting down all the way, allowing more fuel to flow......possible!

The ones from MikesXS were mentioned in a recent thread, I think with the MikesXS part # and all....in Larmee's thread IIRC!
T.C

[AlanB]

Hi Ross,

Before you go nuts trying to find rare carb parts, swap the damaged one into another carb; If the problem moves too, you have nailed it!

If the same cylinder stays rich, you don't need to find that part............

But .......you are still looking for a fault. LOL!

AlanB

[planedick]

Needle

If you find you need a needle I think I can help.

[ross]

i'm a man on the edge.....

hey there folks...thanx for all the advice......have been doing some research myself and have come to the same conclusions.....

topcatgr58.....thanx for the kind advice.....the word "rare" is echoing thru my brain as i type this....i believe from the thread you mentioned....the one i have does have the 16 holes......the middle one in the picture you posted....



would you recommend that i replace the jet needle also since it has been hitting the flat spot and possibly denting it?....will let u know what i find....

AlanB.....you crazy Scots got it all figured out.....wish us crazy americans could just head down 2 the pub, knock back a couple pints and solve all of life's problems.....actually your idea is very sound....it won't take 2 long to do and should give direct results....will have a better answer this weekend....i will have 2 have a couple pints on you if the problem doesn't move though....

planedick.....just how much is shipping from Yorba Linda, CA??????!!!!!...i will let you know if i need your assistance...thanx 4 the offer....

obkaybe..this is the weekend 2 figure this out....might not have the parts 2 fix it right now, but sounds like i got backups and ideas that could help....of course, as usual, i will supply many photos of what i discover......to unlock the mystery of the XS11, one must achieve complete and total understanding of one's inner being.......ross

[psycoreefer]

Just a note on the jets from mikes XS, the way the numbering works a Y0 is... 9 sizes larger then our X2's thats .04mm larger in diameter according to the research I've done. Think of the effect of going nine sizes up on your main jet.

It seems the series number - 266, 301, whatever denotes the style and number of holes while the X2, Y0, whatever denotes the internal diameter of the jet with letters being .05mm and numbers being .005mm

I would think with that large a jump we would need to use different needles so that they properly fill the hole.

Also I messed up that ring that sitcks up into the throat of the carb on my #4 cylinder so I just broke the rest of it off with a pair of pliers so that it wouldn't hit the needle. If you look at the mikes XS ones they don't have that ring. My plugs all look good now after adjusting the float height. If you discover that your needle is hanging on it I'd just break it off until you can find a replacement.

[ross]

man on a mission...

hey there psycoreefer....since 2morrow is gonna be sh*tty, gonna try what i mentioned above.....but you have given me an idea to rescue the needle jet/emulsion tube.....you said you removed your tip with a pair of pliers....i have a buddy with a cnc machine...maybe he can remove just the flat spot area and leave the rest alone....will let ya know....ross

[psycoreefer]

I sure hope we are talking about the same part of the needle jet. I'm talking about the ring that stcks up into the carb throat. If you look at the picture of all the jets two posts up the first two needle jets on the left have the ring I'm talking about. The third one on the right, and the ones from mikesxs don't. Not really sure what it does, maybe helps the venturi effect? Doesn't seem to have a huge effect on the engine. Like I said, I would swap the jets first and see if that flat spot is what's causing your problem before modifying the jets.

[ross]

mission update....

hey there folks....dug into her again 2day and got the carbs out....(can do it in about 25 minutes...and i'm not proud of that fact!)....noticed that the butterflies were really close on clearance, but not quite there....



dug into #1 & #2 for comparison.....yeppers, PO did grab the needle jet with needle nose pliers....i at that moment, blacked out that advice out of my manual so that i don't make the same mistake....



i checked the float height and it is 22.7 mm off the top of the gasket....but using the clear tube method, the float is correct.....



pulled the needle jet to figure out what needed 2 b done......also noticed a silver spot on the side of the jet needle.....




checked 2 make sure the 2 pieces fit together correctly....they did not hang up or bind in any way.....



i thought about all the suggestions and even though mikesxs parts do not have the xtra piece sticking up into the throat of the carb, i wanted to try and save what i had and not f*ck it up anymore than it was.....i figured that if i could get the flat spot rounded out, that would be better than having nothing 2 work with at all....




not gonna go into 2 much detail, but it required the wood block shown (with 1/2 of a 1/4inch hole drilled into it)....a SMALL hammer, and a very rounded aluminum rod......gentle adjustments....and i think she turned out pretty good........

lastly, and most importantly....3 things.....

exactly what is the hole on the upper right corner of the carb body.....the hole 2 the left of the upper right screw hole shown in the picture below (this hole crosses over to the siphon tube that goes down to the bottom of the bowl...the new gaskets sort of covered the slot and i cut them away to open the hole in the gasket to the edges of the hole in the carb body....



timing was checked and on the $$$.....used my vacuum setup and got the carbs almost dialed into 10-10.5 cm hg........then she ran outta gas....it seems to really be eating up gas more than it should....i didn't measure how much i put in, but i was only using my 1 gal gas tank and it was about 2/3 full.....it only idled about 1/2 - 2/3 of an hour....

finally, after i open my first holy water of the day(god bless), i decided to use my new laser thermometer......this is a must have for all mechanics.....car, boat, bike whatever.....here are the readings (measured at the upper screw of each exhaust gasket) after she sat for about 1 minute...

#4 - 240
#3 - 239
#2 - 140
#1 - 113

something is telling me that i'm not done working on her.....also, i did remove the #1 pilot screw, cleaned it out and reset it to 1-1/2 turns out from "lightly" seated before i started....

i know i have gone farther into this bike than even the dealership knows about....for gods sake, i had to help the mechanic remove the rear wheel shaft to change the tire....

well this is the latest update...hope 2 find help and get friendly advice.....like i said before "i'm a man on the edge".....thanx in advance for all the help....ross

[John]

Re: mission update....

exactly what is the hole on the upper right corner of the carb body.....the hole 2 the left of the upper right screw hole shown in the picture below (this hole crosses over to the siphon tube that goes down to the bottom of the bowl...the new gaskets sort of covered the slot and i cut them away to open the hole in the gasket to the edges of the hole in the carb body....

That hole is for the starter air bleed, in Yama Speak. It is actually the choke air bleed in layman's terms. It mixes air with the fuel in the choke circuit to help atomize the fuel so it doesn't get sucked in while it is still in liquid form.

[AlanB]

Re: mission update....

Hi Ross,

Great work on repairing your own parts; I am not a fan of the "kits".... Just another chance of fitting wrong parts...LOL!

I don't know if I am mis-reading what you have said; But from this:.....

Originally posted by ross
something is telling me that i'm not done working on her.....also, i did remove the #1 pilot screw, cleaned it out and reset it to 1-1/2 turns out from "lightly" seated before i started....

Do you mean that you have ONLY cleaned and set No!?..... If so, you need to go back and do the rest. Don't forget to blow through all the passages with carb cleaner and air.

Could be that No1 is flowing OK, rest are weak! The motor would run badly enough that no1 will show rich.

If I have misunderstood what you meant.... I apologise in advance!

AlanB

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Ross,

Okay, I went back and re-read this entire thread to see if I could see what all you've done. REcapping, the bike was running right for the past 2 years, then started acting up. You say you cleaned the carbs, but didn't go into great detail about what all you cleaned, removed, etc.?? Then you tried running it, found #1 plug blackened vs. the other 3 and have gone into much efforts with synching, electrical diagnostics, etc.!

Looking at your fine pictures...and you have provided quite a few in this thread , your #2 main jet looks rather gummed up?? Also, you stated removing the resetting the #1 Pilot SCREW, but what about the pilot jets under those little screws next to the main jets??? Did you actually remove ALL of them, soak the pilot JETS, squirt cleaner thru the pilot jet tower to ensure flow thru the circuit, first seeing it come out of the removed pilot screw hole, and then with the screw in place, coming out thru the 3 small orifices in the upper part of the carb throat, the ones used to verify the presynch technique??

Your pipe temps show that either 3-4 are running lean, or 1-2 are running rich?? I don't know what the temps should be after reaching normal operating temps, but 1-2 seem a bit cool???
T.C.