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Which XS/XJ is the fastest?

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  • #16
    Sorry this is so long winded and pretty basic to some of you...


    Somebody correct me if I'm wrong in any of this. I don't know the specifics exactly. You can change performance many different ways, but one of them is by changing the timing and duration of your cams (When the open and close and how long they stay open) and the cam lobe height determines how far the valves get pushed open. Another way is to make higher compression. Third is more volume (As in boring the engine... bigger is better)

    As the pistons go down and the intake valves open, they draw the air/fuel mix into the cylinder. The valves close and then the piston comes to the very top of it's compression stroke, near the very top of the cylinder. The compression ratio for say 10:1 means that if the cylinder on the very bottom of the piston's stroke held a total volume of 100 cubic centimeters for a round number, at the top of the stroke, this would all be compressed into an area of 10 Cubic Centimeters. This is all compressed into an area in the head that is cup shaped. This is refered to as the combustion chamber, which has your valves and spark plug in it. The '78 and '79 motors had smaller valves, which meant a smaller combustion chamber to accomadate these smaller valves. Since this area was smaller, the pistons were cramming this fuel/air into a smaller space... meaning higher compression ratios. As a general rule, more compression means more power. Also, even with these smaller valves, these bikes were the fastest of all the XSes due to higher compression and a higher performance cam. The California emmission controls hadn't been placed on these yet.

    The later models recieved bigger valves, which needed bigger combustion chambers to accomodate them.. meaning reduced compression numbers. Bigger valves would let the motor breathe better, (and run cleaner for California rules) and should help it make more power, but the cams were toned down a bit. The later model pistons were also higher domed than the '78/'79's to make back up some of the compression lost when the combustion chamber was enlarged, but didn't make it all up.

    So... short story REALLLLY long.... By adding the hotter 78/79 cams to the later model engines with the bigger valves is supposed to offset the compression lost power and run better. I can't prove anything as in a dyno or anything, but I know my motor has at least kept up with any of the stock XS's I have run against.... even with me having a much higher body weight than most. BUT... I have never installed the '82 cams to get a comparrison.

    It has been said that running a '80 or newer motor with the higher domed pistons and using a smaller combustion chambered '78/'79 head and cams should make the best performance from stock parts.

    As for the special order Wiseco pistons, I recently ordered and bored my motor for the 1179 kit. I compared the new Wiseco pistons to the stock '82 pistons, and the stock pistons were a little bit higher domed than the new ones. This would result in slightly lower compression ratio on a rebuild using Wiseco pistons in a later motor. The new pistons ARE higher domed than the 78/79 pistons though, which would mean an increase in compression for the early motors.

    Tod
    Last edited by trbig; 02-06-2008, 06:37 PM.
    Try your hardest to be the kind of person your dog thinks you are.

    You can live to be 100, as long as you give up everything that would make you want to live to be 100!

    Current bikes:
    '06 Suzuki DR650
    *'82 XJ1100 with the 1179 kit. "Mad Maxim"
    '82 XJ1100 Completely stock fixer-upper
    '82 XJ1100 Bagger fixer-upper
    '82 XJ1100 Motor/frame and lots of boxes of parts
    '82 XJ1100 Parts bike
    '81 XS1100 Special
    '81 YZ250
    '80 XS850 Special
    '80 XR100
    *Crashed/Totalled, still own

    Comment


    • #17
      Tod, thanks! Now I have to decide if I wanna just buy a '78 to mod, or buy myself another Maxim, chop it down, and find a '78/'79 head and cams to install on it! :-) Hmm... decisions, decisions.
      Last edited by FSCGunslinger; 02-06-2008, 06:52 PM.
      "I said I never had much use for [a pistol], never said I didn't know how to use one."

      '82 Maxim XJ1100J (Maroon) - "Organ Donor" - Parts bike

      '82 Maxim XJ1100J (Black) - "Outrider" - Dynojet Stage 1 kit, Kerker 4-1 exhaust, AGM battery, Mikes XS coils, small inline fuel filters, Dunlopp Elite-3 tires

      '06 Star Warrior (Custom Gadsden Flag Theme) - "ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ" - Sissy bar w/ luggage rack, 4" risers, braided stainless steel cables and brake line; Mods on deck: new exhaust, new seat

      Comment


      • #18
        LOL...

        How about you just get your azz safely home, ride the XJ a bit, and just SEE if you still feel the need for a faster one!

        When they say that the earlier models were the fastest, we're only talking about very small differences that most people wouldn't really be able to tell by hopping on one of each. Plus... due to casting differences in heads and such (Among many other things), two XJ's right next to each other coming off the assembly line could make different horsepower and get different gas mileage.


        BUT... ride the bike first before you start tearing it apart in your head already!


        Tod
        Try your hardest to be the kind of person your dog thinks you are.

        You can live to be 100, as long as you give up everything that would make you want to live to be 100!

        Current bikes:
        '06 Suzuki DR650
        *'82 XJ1100 with the 1179 kit. "Mad Maxim"
        '82 XJ1100 Completely stock fixer-upper
        '82 XJ1100 Bagger fixer-upper
        '82 XJ1100 Motor/frame and lots of boxes of parts
        '82 XJ1100 Parts bike
        '81 XS1100 Special
        '81 YZ250
        '80 XS850 Special
        '80 XR100
        *Crashed/Totalled, still own

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by trbig
          LOL...

          How about you just get your azz safely home, ride the XJ a bit, and just SEE if you still feel the need for a faster one!

          When they say that the earlier models were the fastest, we're only talking about very small differences that most people wouldn't really be able to tell by hopping on one of each. Plus... due to casting differences in heads and such (Among many other things), two XJ's right next to each other coming off the assembly line could make different horsepower and get different gas mileage.


          BUT... ride the bike first before you start tearing it apart in your head already!


          Tod
          Haha, thanks Tod. I am VERY anxious to get home and get to riding - both on the course and on the actual road. This is just something I had thought about since seeing all the cool mods done on here and on the XJ forum. It's not something I can even consider until I am home (for good) and have my own place. I'm just collecting a little intell about it now just to occupy the creative part of my brain for a while. Plus having one to tear apart would help me learn all about motorcycles. I need all the help I can get in that department, as I'm sure you can tell!
          Last edited by FSCGunslinger; 02-06-2008, 08:36 PM.
          "I said I never had much use for [a pistol], never said I didn't know how to use one."

          '82 Maxim XJ1100J (Maroon) - "Organ Donor" - Parts bike

          '82 Maxim XJ1100J (Black) - "Outrider" - Dynojet Stage 1 kit, Kerker 4-1 exhaust, AGM battery, Mikes XS coils, small inline fuel filters, Dunlopp Elite-3 tires

          '06 Star Warrior (Custom Gadsden Flag Theme) - "ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ" - Sissy bar w/ luggage rack, 4" risers, braided stainless steel cables and brake line; Mods on deck: new exhaust, new seat

          Comment


          • #20
            I belive the E model, also has bigger carbs.
            Fastmover
            "Just plant us in the damn garden with the stupid
            lion". SHL
            78 XS1100e

            Comment


            • #21
              Thanks Tod

              Nice simple to understand explanation that cleared a few things up for me.

              When I get round to the XJ engine I'll get some decent early XS cams out and measure up the lobes compared to the XJ cams, for lift and duration.
              Tom
              1982 5K7 Sport, restored to original from a wreck
              1978 2H9 (E), my original XS11, mostly original
              1980 2H9 monoshocked (avatar pic)http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r...psf30aa1c8.jpg
              1982 XJ1100, waiting resto to original

              Comment


              • #22
                the carbs were all the same size. 34 in the front and 52 in the back.
                '81 XS1100 SH

                Melted to the ground during The Valley Fire

                Sep. 12th 2015

                RIP

                Comment


                • #23
                  Let's see if this will work.
                  Here is an online repair coarse that may do you some justice.
                  It's free.
                  I don't have any affiliation with this guy XSept that I was in the military.
                  http://www.dansmc.com/MC_repaircourse.htm

                  If anything, This should give you ( as well as anyone wanting to know ) a basic knowledge of engines.
                  S.R.Czekus

                  1-Project SG (Ugly Rat Bike)(URB)
                  1-big XS patch
                  1-small XS/XJ patch
                  1-XS/XJ owners pin.
                  1-really cool XS/XJ owners sticker on my helmet.
                  2-2005 XS rally T-shirts, (Bean Blossom, In)
                  1-XVS1300C Yamaha Stryker Custom (Mosquito)
                  1-VN900C Kawasaki Custom (Jelly Bean)

                  Just do it !!!!!

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    I always thought the actual carb bodies were all the same, but the intake bell on the XJ carbs are 54mm versus the XS carbs at 52mm.

                    The cam lobes thing has been discussed at great length.... I just can't find it right now. I'm thinking the early cams had a higher lift on them, but the later ones had a longer duration?? Something like that. I will look for it when I get home tonight if someone doesn't find it first.


                    Tod
                    Try your hardest to be the kind of person your dog thinks you are.

                    You can live to be 100, as long as you give up everything that would make you want to live to be 100!

                    Current bikes:
                    '06 Suzuki DR650
                    *'82 XJ1100 with the 1179 kit. "Mad Maxim"
                    '82 XJ1100 Completely stock fixer-upper
                    '82 XJ1100 Bagger fixer-upper
                    '82 XJ1100 Motor/frame and lots of boxes of parts
                    '82 XJ1100 Parts bike
                    '81 XS1100 Special
                    '81 YZ250
                    '80 XS850 Special
                    '80 XR100
                    *Crashed/Totalled, still own

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Well, this isn't really what I was looking for. I was trying to find the actual measurements for the different cams, but here's a couple links to the difference between the two.

                      If you are more of the low-end torque type person that doesn't wind out the motor much, the later cams are for you. If you like to play in the 5k rpm and up range, then the earlier cams are for you...


                      Link 1



                      Link 2


                      If you are really interested in learning more about the engines on these bikes, do a search for Dan Hodges and go back and read some of his postings. If alot of it isn't way over your head... come back here and explain some of it to me will ya??


                      Tod
                      Try your hardest to be the kind of person your dog thinks you are.

                      You can live to be 100, as long as you give up everything that would make you want to live to be 100!

                      Current bikes:
                      '06 Suzuki DR650
                      *'82 XJ1100 with the 1179 kit. "Mad Maxim"
                      '82 XJ1100 Completely stock fixer-upper
                      '82 XJ1100 Bagger fixer-upper
                      '82 XJ1100 Motor/frame and lots of boxes of parts
                      '82 XJ1100 Parts bike
                      '81 XS1100 Special
                      '81 YZ250
                      '80 XS850 Special
                      '80 XR100
                      *Crashed/Totalled, still own

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Well, I have a set of '70s and my set of '81 and both measure the same 54mm OD 52mm ID.
                        '81 XS1100 SH

                        Melted to the ground during The Valley Fire

                        Sep. 12th 2015

                        RIP

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Thanks for all the info, guys, especially the links! I really appreciate it!

                          So if I'm understanding correctly, there's no real way to get any low-end boost out of these engines, just at higher rpms. Correct?
                          "I said I never had much use for [a pistol], never said I didn't know how to use one."

                          '82 Maxim XJ1100J (Maroon) - "Organ Donor" - Parts bike

                          '82 Maxim XJ1100J (Black) - "Outrider" - Dynojet Stage 1 kit, Kerker 4-1 exhaust, AGM battery, Mikes XS coils, small inline fuel filters, Dunlopp Elite-3 tires

                          '06 Star Warrior (Custom Gadsden Flag Theme) - "ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ" - Sissy bar w/ luggage rack, 4" risers, braided stainless steel cables and brake line; Mods on deck: new exhaust, new seat

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Not true. You can do a search for Maximan's post on his rebuild. He had his intake cam sprocket slotted and advanced.
                            '81 XS1100 SH

                            Melted to the ground during The Valley Fire

                            Sep. 12th 2015

                            RIP

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              There has been members that have towed full sized pickups with their bikes. I have (On more than one occasion) had instances where the thing has tried to crawl out from under me as it's accelerating from a stop.

                              Nope... They are dogs. You need to find some way to get a little power in the low end. lol.

                              All kidding aside, these things are never going to be a Busa or Gixxer. But for a fairly cheap old bike... there's still plenty of ponies under that valve cover to give a better ride than any "E" ticket at Disnet used to.. (OK.. that tells my age when I talk about things that don't exist any more... lol) At 25-30 years of age... stock, they are going to beat 95% of what's on the road now.


                              Tod
                              Try your hardest to be the kind of person your dog thinks you are.

                              You can live to be 100, as long as you give up everything that would make you want to live to be 100!

                              Current bikes:
                              '06 Suzuki DR650
                              *'82 XJ1100 with the 1179 kit. "Mad Maxim"
                              '82 XJ1100 Completely stock fixer-upper
                              '82 XJ1100 Bagger fixer-upper
                              '82 XJ1100 Motor/frame and lots of boxes of parts
                              '82 XJ1100 Parts bike
                              '81 XS1100 Special
                              '81 YZ250
                              '80 XS850 Special
                              '80 XR100
                              *Crashed/Totalled, still own

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                In addition to what Trbig mentioned. A rider with more expirience (especially someone who has practiced launching) will be able to coax far more out of a bike than the small difference between the years and models of XS1100s. In addition, a greater amount of performance would be easier and cheaper to achive through a rider going on a diet and exercising. I personally tip the scales at a pre breakfast 250#. This would be a huge hurdle to overcome vs a 150# rider. That said I still have plans to perform some of the performance mods on my bike in the future More power is better right!

                                dave
                                Dave
                                1979 XS1100SF Special

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