New Guy, new project .. gonna need help

[Bullet]

Hey folks

I have been lurking around for a few months, absorbing all the great info posted here, wow, excellent tips and info.. lots of good stuff to read

Well , I am about to try to put together a 1980 SG .. from the frame up .. been a while since I worked on a bike, ( like 20 yrs ) and I am sure I have tons of questions as this project gets going..


Here's how I got this far.

I bought a slighty beaten 1980 SG a few months ago, it has a 1981 SH engine in it ( apparantly one of the previous owners had it replaced some time ago, and all they could find at the time was a 81 mill)

The rest of the bike appears to be original 1980 SG vintage.

It started and ran alright when I brought it back to my shop, but the story I got was it sat for a couple years , etc etc.

I also picked up a "parts" bike a couple months ago , it is a 79 F .. the engine in this one is the original 79 ..

Story I got on the 79 F bike, is it caught on fire , ( gas in airbox , I was told ) and most of the wiring got toasted . but the engine is all there .

So, both bikes came apart down to the frame ..

I had the 80 frame powder coated and am ready to start putting it back together as a 1980 bike with a combo 79 /81 engine.

I have tore most of both engines apart and it appears that the 79 engine is not as worn as the 81 is.

I did a compression test on the 81 engine before ripping it down.

115/125/145/110

I have a Wiseco 1179 kit ready to go into the rebuild engine.

First ?

Since I have a set of 81 cams and head and a set of 79 cams and head , and am going with the 1179 kit ..

1) What's the best way to go with the parts I have, for most low end and mid power ?

I am gonna redo the engine with new bearings, 1179 kit .. and will have 1 of the heads machined up with a valve job and new seals etc ..

I haven't worked on any bikes in a few years , ( I am a marine drive guy by trade ) and this should be a fun project .. ( I hope )

Anyway, before I send off parts to my buddies machine shop, I was just wondering if anyone could offer some advice on the head and cam combo for best performance I am looking for and if there is any valve to piston clearnace issues with this Wiseco 1179 kit ..

My sales rep ( I am a Kimpex dealer ) tells me it should be fine , but he sells parts , not a engine builder , lol .

I have both sets of carbs too ( 79 and 81 ) and was wondering if one set was better than the other for the kind of performance I am looking for ?

I am planning to do the bike mostly OEM , with minor mods.

Thanks in advance for any start off info you guys can help me with..

I am sure I be here a lot , lol ..

[Crazcnuk]

Others will pipe in, but heres what I understand.

1) The Wiseco kit has no clearance issues.
2) You will want to use the 80 head (bigger valves
3) Use the 79 cams (more duration, lift or something)
4) Use the 79 Carbs, (more tunable) but rejet for your new project.
5) Check the tech section, here, and do the 2nd gear fix (mod) while you have it apart.
6) Make sure you have matching pick-up coils and TCI box. They were different between 79/80/81.
7) Depending on your use, check out the 750 final drive mod.

I also have an 80G with an '81 engine in it. I am in the process of rebuilding the 80G engine with an RC Engineering 1208cc kit.

[MaximPhil]

Welcome

Hi Bullet,
You will find lots of good advice on this site. Last rode the Hockley Valley back in October. Good luck with your project.
Next rally is to the Poconos in Pensylvania hope you can get it ready by then. see XS East in Rallies / NA
Wayne in Port Perry has dealt with the horrors of fire damage in the electrical system.
Maxim Phil

[TopCatGr58]

Hey there Bullet,

Here's a quote from an old thread from Dan Hodges:

The 80& 81 have the big valve heads and so does the 82,but the 82 has the YICS.The late heads also have larger ports and bigger combustion chambers and will out flow the early heads (78-79) by ten percent.Web cams has a number of cams that work well,depending on what you want to do.The early cams,have 12 degrees more duration than the late ones,but the late ones have .020 more lift on the exhaust.One more time,late heads have 2 millimeter larger intake valves and 1 millimeter larger exhaust.The valve size is covered in the shop manual.

DiverRay also stated that the older/earlier cams gave a bit more performance in the TOP END/higher rpm range than the later cams!

So...it would appear that the overall best combo is the later 80-81 heads with the earlier cams.

I would suggest not only looking at the 2nd gears, but the 1st/4th gears as well!

The 750 final drive mod is good for folks that do a lot of highway or higher speed and distance riding, for mileage and such. But if you're looking for lower end torque/grunt, you might not like the 750 mod as much as the stock gearing/ratios!? YMMV

IF you have a decent set of OEM exhausts with your bikes, that'll be one of the better things you can put on to preserve the low end, along with the OEM airbox, although Pod filters make it easier/quicker to R&R the carbs during tuning, but folks will say that it'll take more tuning with PODS to get it sweet!? YMMV

Being an SG, you've got the smaller 16" rear wheel which will also give you a little more grunt vs. the taller 17" wheel of the standards.

Do a search for "Ignition Module", and look at the 2nd and later pages in the thread you find with that title, and you'll learn the differences between the years and what parts you'll need to put on to use the 80SG's TCI and advance components. The 81 engine won't have all of the needed timing parts!

Also, check out the clutch closely, be sure to get NEW HD Springs at least, if not also new frictions, and possibly the extra steel, to help put all of that grunt to the ground!

Yes, the 79 carbs are a bit more tunable...ie. the vacuum slide needle is adjustable, but the slides and rubber diaphragms are much more expensive to replace IF damaged beyond repair, where as the 81 carbs can be rebuilt with easier cheaper diaphragms, and the bowl vents are built into the intake bell, vs the upper carb body extra "T" vents on the side. Also same for other carb parts like floats, needle seats/valves. And the parts can't be shared between the years carbs, so inspect your vacuum slide diaphragms closely, this may guide your decision!?

Those comps for the 81 engine aren't necessary the whole story, could have been just minor rust/stuck rings and after a few hundred miles on the engine could have been a different story, but you've already torn it apart and gotten the 1179 kit, so that's spilt milk now anyways!

Congrats on your find, your project, and I'm sure I speak for many here.....PICTURES, PICTURES, PICTURES!!!
T.C.

[tinman905]

Welcome aboard Bullet , looks like you should have lots of time to

complete your rebuild, the cold and the snow seems like it's going

to be here for a while. It will be nice to see another XS1100 in

the area. Post some pics of your progress.

[Guy_b_g]

I am building a cafe style bike from a low mile '78E that sat for far too long (well over 20 years).

Mods include:
GSXR 750 36mm carbs with stock intake boots, mated to straight shot XS850 boots with machined adapters just long enough to match them up end to end to the stock intakes (to offset shorter intake length because of removal of stock air box). KN dual pods

Possible addition of a dial-a-jet system (feedback welcome...will it work with said carbs and pods?)

Wiseco big-bore 1196 kit. Piston skirts dry film lubricated, crowns
heat barrier coated.

81 head with intake ports matched, (milled 18 thousandths), intake roofs slightly raised, rough texture. Exhaust ports will be matched and blended to exhaust gasket, roof raised somewhat more than intake and polished.

Valves relieved at 5 angles. Combustion chamber will be polished and heat barrier coated, valve faces, intake and exhaust ports also heat barrier coated. Valve train will be treated with Gear-Kote dry film lubricant to include parts from bearing caps and seats, to cams, valve springs and valve stems. Exterior of cylinders and head will also be treated with Gear-Kote as a heat disbursant.

Starting with a 78 cam for intake and the 81 cam for exhaust...will experiment from there, sprockets will be slotted 6 deg so I can work with cam timing. I may later opt for an aftermarket cam.

Accel coils with 78 ign.

High flow 3/8th npt billet Pingle petcocks, with high flow filters inline.

Jardine 4-1 Jet-Hot treated in metallic copper color.

Barnett clutch and springs.

Tranny fix and coating of all gears with Gear-Kote for cooler running and friction reduction.

Addition of oil-cooler.

Weight reduction via replacement of stock headlight assy and mounts replaced with aluminum ears and 7" round lamp, removal of rear sub-frame from seat mount back, (gonna use the stock cowling with an undertail of my own devise). Replacement of front fender with a very light Arlen Ness plastic cafe style. Ign box relocated to front of inner rear fender behind battery. Glass mat battery. Removal of centerstand (hope I don't get a flat!).

I will be weighing the bike on a scale at work when I finish it to give you guys a total.

Tkat brace, Progressive springs in front, Progressive shocks in back.

Colors on the bike will be black with red pinstriping (bodywork), black front forks, copper and silver exhaust, copper wheels, red center baskets on discs, red calipers and final drive.

I also scored a perfect NOS British Velocette style handlebar fairing, in lightweight fiberglass circa '70's style cafe racer. Much nicer than the $39 Viper fairings so common on Ebay.

This will be my last and best bike of the 16 I have owned, as I recently discovered I have Macular Degeneration and am probably going to be blind in a very few years. I am determined to do it exactly as I want it and labor/cost be damned. I've already been working on it about 9 months.

Myself and a good friend of mine who is an superb machinist (with a lot of experience doing high performance work on sprint cars) are doing all the work. I expect it to be in the road this spring with stock heads and cylinders, and with all mods complete by early summer. Pics will follow when the bike is roadworthy.

When it's done I am gonna ride the hell out of it as long as I can safely do so, then sell it to someone on this forum.

Feedback and comments are welcome as to the mods I am doing. Most of the mods are inspired by this forum.

[tinman905]

Hey Bullet where did you take your frame to get powder coated?

[Bullet]

Re: Welcome

Sorry for the late reply, but was away for a week working out of province .

Anyway ,starting this Monday I get into this project.

Originally posted by MaximPhil
Hi Bullet,
You will find lots of good advice on this site. Last rode the Hockley Valley back in October. Good luck with your project.
Next rally is to the Poconos in Pensylvania hope you can get it ready by then. see XS East in Rallies / NA
Wayne in Port Perry has dealt with the horrors of fire damage in the electrical system.
Maxim Phil

Many thanks , yeah it's a nice area up here, lots of bikes go right by my shop in the summer , sort of the reason I got the "urge" again .. I starting riding when I was 6 , raced dirt bikes back then ( my uncle was team factory rider for can-am back in them days) I basically lived on my bikes for years , lol

Then in 1981 I bought a new Midnight Special 1100, and 2 weeks into the bike and 111 km's on it , I got t- boned by a pickup truck ... was pretty banged up and didn't get back on a bike for a few years .. so I'm looking forward to getting this project together and catching up on some lost km's ..

Thanks Crazcnuk , yeah that is what I am thinking ..

81 head , 79 cams and the big bore kit.

NEw clutch plates, springs , etc.


TopCatGr58 thanks as well .

Yeah I am doing this one , without over looking anything .. both donor bikes are rough, and I check everything as I go, and if parts look iffy , I will replace them ..

Got most my parts already , and planning on getting the frame on the bench this monday .. I got a bit of downtime till the spring boat season fires up , so I am gonna give er for a few weeks and get this bike together.

I am probably gonna keep the stock 1100 final drive, as its in pretty good shape. I got most of the new parts through my supplier, brake pads , clutch springs , cables, tires , piston kit, clutch springs .. etc .

The original exhaust is rough , so going with a set of Jardine or Mac 4 into 1's .

Most of the other parts off the 80 and 79 are useable.

I am gonna keep the bike pretty stock looking except for the exhaust.

I am gonna split both engines cases this week , and will post pics of both, to see which you guys think is the better one to work with as far as the 1st gear issues go.

But yeah, I will start a pic gallery on one of my servers .. and I am sure I will have a ton of questions too, lol.

The 81 head is at my buddies shop getting cleaned up and checked for straight , and a valve job as well, new seals etc.

Jugs are getting bored for the new slugs to ..

Carbs are apart and soaking ..


tinman905

I got my frame done by a guy in Newmarket .. Wasn't to impressed with his work ethic, he disappeared on me for 2 months after I dropped it off, could never contact him, and when I finally got my frame back after 3 months , it looks decent, but lot of dust in the finish .. then he tried to jack me on the price.

If you want the info , shoot me a pm , but all in all , I wouldn't recommend him ..


I post back as I get into this and start a pic gallery this week ..

Got a lot of parts to go through and see what's what ..


Thanks for the tips guys .. this is gonna be a fun project

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Bullet,

I hope you're still on the site and will read this!

IF you are truly soaking your entire carb bodies in cleaner, PULL THEM OUT IMMEDIATELY and rinse them off!!!

The butterfly shaft seals will become toast in a few hours of soaking, and then you'll be in for some more extensive and expensive repairs, $5.00 for each seal, X 8, plus the fun of removing the butterflies....the little screws are peened over to keep them from vibrating out!!

Yes, soak all the metal bits like jets, nozzles, but not the rubber parts!
T.C.

[AlanB]

Hi Guy,

I am running my XS on the 36mm GSXR Slingshots (the early Gixers use "standard" CV carbs...) with a 4into1 pipe. The mod was recommended to me by the local Dyno shop, who were Dynojet dealers. The recommended NOT to use the D-J kit on the older bikes.......

I ended up with a hair over 90bhp at the tyre; sheets are posted on the site somewhere...... Stock was about 72......

AlanB

[Bullet]

Originally posted by TopCatGr58
Hey Bullet,

I hope you're still on the site and will read this!

IF you are truly soaking your entire carb bodies in cleaner, PULL THEM OUT IMMEDIATELY and rinse them off!!!

The butterfly shaft seals will become toast in a few hours of soaking, and then you'll be in for some more extensive and expensive repairs, $5.00 for each seal, X 8, plus the fun of removing the butterflies....the little screws are peened over to keep them from vibrating out!!

Yes, soak all the metal bits like jets, nozzles, but not the rubber parts!
T.C.

LOL


No, they are all ripped apart ... just soaking the castings and metal parts only ..

got new shaft seals, kits , etc , ready to go back in ..

[Bullet]

Well , got both engines apart yesterday ..

Glad I did this as the 81 engine that was in the bike has been apart before , and the bearings are coloured and worn bad , probably lack of maintenance, and a few other surprizes .

( i get the pics up next week )

Good news is the 79 engine looks pretty nice , and if I didnt already have the main and con rod bearings , I would of probably left them intact ..

Quick question ..

The hy/vo chain in both engines had about 3/4 " of play from top to bottom before I took them out.

Is this too much slack ?

I got the case halfs soaking right now , and will be assembling next week ..

I took a quick peek at the 2/5 gear dogs and slots , and so far the 79 engine looks pretty good .. the 81 looks bad . ( again I get pics up next week )

Looks like I will use the 79 engine parts for the rebuild .. much better shape after quick inspection yesterday , but will mike up everything on Monday.

I guess my question is , even though the slots and dogs look decent in the 79 , should I do the undercut anyways , to avoid future problems .

I am no lightweight either ( 250 lbs ) and would be a shame to do this project and have to pull the shaft out at a later date to do the undercut ..

Is there any other known issues with the tranny I should be looking at ?


thanks .

[John]

Do it now, or do it later. It would be easier to get it done while it's apart now, and not have to pull it apart again later.

[Bullet]

Back at it again ..

Finally found some time this week to work on the bike again.

I'm putting the engine back together and have a question about the 3 half moon circlips which go on the large bearings on the middle driven gear ..

I took 3 engines apart for this project, and every engine had these clips in different positions

It appears all 3 engines have been apart before.

Here is a pic of one of the engine when it was coming apart.

Question is .. which is the correct positioning for these clips ?

By the manual, it appears the ends of the clips are to be flush with the case halves, but they don't get specific about this .. just a pic ..

This pic below shows them extending through both case halves as it came apart.

Which is the right way to put them back in ?

thanks . .

[TopCatGr58]

Just rationalizing here.

Hey Bullet,

You say there are only 3 clips, not 4? I haven't looked at the microfiche so I don't know, but if you found 3 different ones that way, then I guess they only need 3 clips, 2 for the outer one, and 1 for the inner one.

They are 1/2 circle clips. Their purpose is to keep the part in position inside the engine case, which is also 1/2 circle. IF the clips were aligned perfectly to fit inside each 1/2 engine case, they would meet each others ends where the cases meet. More of a chance for things to slide/shift. So...I summize that the clips just need to be rotated to a position to that the clips go thru the cases so that each half of the case holds onto 1/2 of the clip!

That's my idea and thinking on this, disclaimer, I'm no engineer!
T.C.