Blinker Troubles! Please Help!

[Da-Bubble]

Hello,

The bike is all painted and partially reassembled and now we're working on the wiring. The blinkers never worked before I tore down the bike so I don't know the exact problem. Here's what I've got:

New MikesXS switches wired in. They are wired color for color with one Yellow/Black left over just as mentioned by Mac the chrome goodness guy.

Also using four bullet turn signals with 1157 LEDs at all four corners. I am using a digital flasher unit. The unit and LEDs are from SuperBrightLEDs.com.

When we were wiring the rear lights, at first we had them working as running lights and brakes using the original taillight wiring. Victory! Then as we were trying to include the blinkers, we were messing with a flasher from the parts store and after that the running lights won't work. So at the rear only the brake lights work not the tails....thats our first problem. (this we can bypass by using another ignition-hot for running lights but I wanted to mention it in case it gives somebody a clue to our bigger problem...blinkers).

Now with the new digital flasher in place all the lights blink correctly. The only problem is no matter which way you throw the switch BOTH LEFT AND RIGHT SIDES FLASH. They flash all together but the indicator on the gauges does not. Here's the fun part....if you hit the left switch then touch the right blinker wire to the frame, the right side stops blinking and the dash indicator works like it should. If you hit the right blinker and ground the left the same thing happens, the right ones blink and the dash works like it should. We thought it was just a grounding issue but if you simply ground both at the same time it just shorts out everything and nothing blinks (and the wires get hot and burn your fingers).

Please help if you have any ideas since my bro-in-law and I worked on this about 5-6 hours tonight and still have no clue. We have tried everything we know to do.

Thanks,
Scott

[mro]

So you be using the "chrome" XS650 control from mikesXS?
Would check how the turn switch is wired.
Could be something amiss there.

mro

[Da-Bubble]

Nope just the black ones but same difference. The switch seems to be working fine. We used a voltage meter and checked all the individual wires. If we disconnect the left wire coming from the switch then signal left nothing happens but the right switch still lights all lights. The same works for disconnecting the right wire.

We even tried switching around wires bike but nothing helps. Why would they all tie together?

[TopCatGr58]

Hey MRO,

You haven't had your morning coffee yet!

Da-Bubble, you have oopsed in trying to use the turn signals as running lights, linking them to the tail lights!

You need to remove those wires/hots from the tail running lights, leave them only connected to the tail light.

Then isolate the actual turn signal hot leads for each turn signal near the lights, should be either dark green or brown. Only connect those leads to the LED signal lights, and of course the grounds for them. The grounds on some models even though they have a bullet wire connector actually connect to a large ring/washer type connector around the stalk of the OEM mount and ground to the frame/fender. IF it's not grounded, possibly due to different mounting for your new LED lights, then of course they won't work.

Check these things out, and get back to us if it doesn't work!
T.C.

[81xsproject]

I never got my 2-prong flash from SBL.com to work. I had tons of problems getting my LED blinkers to work. I ended up getting a 3 from Schmuck's, figuring out how exactly the blinkers worked and ended up re-wiring the flasher plug to work.

[skids]

I tried using "1157" type leds and they just did not work properly. I had the same problems as you have. I just went to using them as turn signals and all is well.

[mro]

You haven't had your morning coffee yet!

OK...had some coffee
Have re-read post...
What he's said and what he means mighy be different.
Simple rule of thumb...
Check all grounds first with all other wires disconnected.

Dark Green (right turns)
Chocolate (left turns)
Not sure where best place would be to hook up "running" light portion of the 1157 type LED...but don't see how that would interfere with the turns unless there be a miss connection or a short...

I have not tried a LED conversion, all mine be stock. Have read a few times that there has been problems with some flashers and like 81xsproject have changed it a second time which seems to have solved there problem. Might be from how the circut runs from the rear ground wiring as the bullet connectors connect the ground not just to the frame but to the fuse box and a half dozen other places along the way. Since the LEDs use little power wonder if this could be where the problem may be with the flashers that don't work?


mro

[Da-Bubble]

OK. Got some sleep and got back after it this morning. I took the LED stuff out of the equation and put back all the regular bulbs and the factory flasher back in place. Now it lights both left turns and the indicator when you push left and does the rights if you signal right. That's awesome! It just does not blink! That means the switch works just having flasher problems now.

I might mention that these are the only lights wired in. TC the only thing I have plugged in are the brown and green wires for the turns. No runnings right now.

I am not using the rear grounding ring terminals since the new bullet lights are self grounding. I did try grounding both these rings to the battery and no difference.

I think 81xsproject is right. It's the two prong LED flasher that's messing things up. Which one did you end up using?

[Da-Bubble]

NEW DEVELOPMENT!!!

With all incandescent bulbs and the electronic flasher (CF12ANL-01 from SBL) the signals work perfect! I then started replacing bulbs one at a time with LEDs. Right rear = still blinking. Right front = still blinking. When I put the Left Front LED in place the right blinkers (both LED) still blink fine but when I signal left, all four start blinking. Then to finish everything off I put the last LED in the Left Rear and they all four blink no matter which way you signal. That's what they were doing last night.

Now that's very specific so you electrical gurus out there figure this out! I am so close now!

[TopCatGr58]

Hey MRO,

My bad, Scott was talking about wiring up the running and tail lights, and I thought he had included the LEDS hooking them up to the running light's BLUE wire, which would have linked both sides!?

Scott, I'm not familiar with SBL's flasher unit? I got an electromechanical one from the auto store and just plugged it in. It was 2 prong style. I have leds on all four signals, but still have incandescent signal indicator bulbs in the pilot box.

The LED's require very little power, like 0.3 amps to run vs. the 2.25amps per bulb of the incandescent 27 watt bulbs! You say the LEDS are self grounding, so I assume you mean that where they mount to the frame is the ground for them!? I would try using the OEM grounding wire to the casing of the LED bullet housing, and be sure it's getting a good ground to frame.

Sounds like the power is bleeding back from the left side thru the LEDS on the right. Some LEDs are polarized, but some work with power coming to them either way, thru the power or the ground!?!? With LEDs it doesn't take much power to light them!
T.C.

[Da-Bubble]

TC did you read my last post? I am going to try a different flasher from the parts store on the way home. For now I can run LEDs in the rear and incandescent in the front because that makes it work fine. It's almost like the system needs everything else wired and lit to make the flasher work.

[Do Lee]

Scott,
If you have a 79 Special and your using the stock pilot box the problem is at the turn signal indicator light. The left turn signal (brown wire) goes into the socket and the right turn signal (dark green wire) is attached to the outer part of the socket (shell). So the left and right turn signal circuits are linked at this point. The incandescent bulbs don't care which way the voltage flows as long as it goes to ground. The LED with little resistance sees the voltage coming and lights all the turn signals. I can't remember how the lights work when the left or right signal switch is turned on but one would flash the instrument indicator and the other would turn the instrument indicator on dim. The 79 XS Special was the only year model to have the turn signal indicator as a single light in the instrument pilot box. To make the 79 Special turn signals to work properly you will have to change out your instrument pilot box with a 1980 or 1981 Special or any Standard instrument pilot box (with indivual lights for the left and right turn signal indicators) and rewire the plug to work on your bike.
I went through the same problems a couple years ago.

I hope this helps.

[Do Lee]

I forgot to say that I used a standard pilot box and I'm just using the turn signal indication lights.
I also tried to use LED's for all my instrument lights and found out that the high beam warning light would stay on all the time with an LED. I guess this circuit has a small amount of current flow to light the incandescent bulb (very dim) for bulb burn out. All others worked fine.

[Da-Bubble]

Do Lee,

Thanks for the info! I knew somebody would know the answer. For now they are wired with LEDs in the rear and incandescent in front and all works fine. I even got my trailer light module wired in so the rear two bullet lights function as running, brake and turns! It's just how I hoped it would work. I will sort out the work required to convert the fronts to LED later. For now I am thrilled to death. Hopefully the next post you see from me is pictures of the finished bike!!!

Thanks everyone for your help.

See Ya,
Scott

[mro]

originally posted by Do Lee
The left turn signal (brown wire) goes into the socket and the right turn signal (dark green wire) is attached to the outer part of the socket (shell). So the left and right turn signal circuits are linked at this point.

Is there enough room for seperate LEDs in the pilot box?


mro