Blown 2nd gear

[calmck49]

So let me get this straight. You can leave engine in bike and fix this second gear problem.

[Crazcnuk]

Yes, look in the tech tips section.

[trbig]

It appears that most everyone can... but I couldn't. I messed around for HOURS trying to get it, but couldn't. No matter what I did, the shift fork for 2nd/5th gear cog wouldn't drop out of the way so I could slide the gears out the side.

On hindsight, I could have taken a Dremmel and filed down the very top of the shift fork just a touch. It seemed to be just a hair too long to drop down past the cog. This wouldn't have effected performance of the fork at all, since it's the inside that does the work.

Good luck.


Tod

[jurgenkoppen]

2nd gear fix

Hey,

I am about to do the 2nd gear fix between Christmas and new year on my 79F restore project.
I was greatly encouraged by Top Cat's idea of turning the whole bike upside down to do the repair: Click here for this awesome article
Since I read that, I am just itching to do the fix.
Check it out. Cheers, Jürgen

Thanks to Top Cat!!!

[DiverRay]

Just so you know, it DOES work!!! That is what I did last year. 25,000 miles and still running well.

[jurgenkoppen]

Taken her apart

Today is surgery day1
I am about to do the deed, just printed Topcat's instructions.
I never have dug this deep into a bike's engine, it feels a bit like heart surgery, and I am nervous, hoping it will all come back together again.
I have a whole week blocked in my shop out to deal with this, and I am hoping that with your help I will get the old girl to switch gear again. I'll keep you posted, Jürgen

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Jurgen and others,

I just merely documented the great info that Ken Talbot and others had previously provided, along with photos and such. As I have posted in the tech tip, it's really Ken Talbot's work, I just put it together. So...if any thanks are given, it should be to Ken Talbot FIRST, I'll take any leftovers!

BTW, hope you read the OTHER threads in that section, the more info you have, the better and easier it will be doing this project!
I used a Dremmel, but Ken's info provides use of a diegrinder and diamond bits, and others who have used them said it makes much quicker work of it than the Dremmel Bits! YMMV
T.C.

Just be thankful the engine's not running, even heart surgeons STOP the heart before they work on it!

[jurgenkoppen]

OK, stopped at the nut

Hey Topcat and all others,

yesterday I removed fairing and all the other peripheral stuff, drained oil, took off the oil pan while the bike was still right side up.
I anticipated that there would be debris in the oil pan bottom, and did not want it to fall into the engine. I was right there.
On the clutch side I got stopped at the big nut which holds the clutch basket: needed to run to town to get a big enough socket. Anyway, the bike is upside down now, and I totally love the ease of working on it this way.
After Topcat clarified who invented what, I also thank Ken and Steve and whoever else came up with a this method.
OK, must go back this morning and crack that 27mm nut and see if the 2nd gear cog can be saved, or if the bit of metal in the bottom was one of the dogs....I have another parts tranny, so even if the cog is beyond repair, I'll have backup.

Cheers, Jurgen

[Kevin W]

Jurgen,
I did the repair this summer, and I too hadn't ever done a repair of this magnitude either. It was successful, but I had trouble with my clutch disengaging after I got done. I had the side cover and clutch out 3 times before whatever it was went away? I'd suggest you look very carefully how far back the clutch fits and if you haven't done anything to the clutch adjuster DON'T.
Read this thread and look at the picture from Trbig near the end.
http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread...5&pagenumber=2
HTH
KW

[Kevin W]

A few more things I thought of that I had trouble with on reassembly. Pay close attention to how you get the transmission out of the engine because it will only go back in the same way. When I first tried putting mine in I thought there was NO WAY it would fit. I also wasn't sure how the shift forks went in, (top and bottom) but I'm also pretty sure they only fit one way. In the tech tip near the end Ken mentioned that he liked turning the wheel and seeing how the gears mesh. That's something I didn't do because I was afraid I wouldn't be able to get it back in 4th, but in hind sight it would have given me peace of mind when I had the clutch trouble that I hadn't put something together wrong when I put the transmission together.
Merry Christmas all!
KW

[jurgenkoppen]

clutch basket not spinning

Well, I had the gears out, dremeled them, and got them back in, cover back on, shifter linkage part 1 back on. I thought I had the clutch basket back on ok as well.
Then I read your comments , Kevin, and went back to see if I can spin my basket in neutral. Well so far I could not, I can wriggle it, but it seems to be linked to the engine, which I may be able to turn, but I would not call it free spinning. So I took the basket off to see if there was damage to the oil pump gear and the shifter shaft gear, but there is not. I put the whole basked back on, the oil pump and shifter shaft gears seem to be engaging OK.
I also have 1/8" gap between the gasket and the primary gear nut, where trbig said they should almost touch...

And the splines inside the basket should fit flush with end of the splines on the clutch shaft on the outside face where you put on the washer

That I also do not have flush, there is a bit of a step. So there must be a way to get it further back.

I am not sure how the clutch basket should be able to spin in neutral, ( as TC said ) since the big cogs on the back of the gasket are engaging with the primary gear, which also does not seem to freewheel in neutral. ( In my case right now at least)
I'll try to get to the bottom of it tomorrow morning, at least the bike is still upside down for now...

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Jurgen,

The clutch outer basket is linked to the primary drive shaft from the engine, so you're right, it won't turn easily, but IF you have the spark plugs removed, then you should be able to turn the basket which will turn the engine/pistons a bit! The inner clutch HUB has the splines that match up to the inner clutch shaft that is linked to the tranny, if in neutral it will spin easily.

There were 2 thrust washers, one next to the engine on the shaft BEFORE you put the basket on, and another one that fits inside the basket BEFORE you put the clutch boss assembly on, but it slides/drops easily and can prevent the clutch boss from fitting all the way onto the shaft IF it's out of alignment!

With the basket in place, you should be able to reach around and feel that the gear teeth are meshed!

Good luck! T.C.

[jurgenkoppen]

Hey TC,

thanks for getting back to me on this.
Yes, I also was just re-reading in the book on the order of assembly, and in the book, it was pointed out to make sure the the dome of the thrust washers point outwards. Maybe I have one of them oriented the wrong way.
Then the other thing I will try tomorrow is to wriggle the pressure plates inside the clutch boss assembly ( which is here also called the clutch basket?)a bit and see if that helps in getting the assembly further back.
Maybe I am even trying to fix an imaginary problem here, because, as I said, the gears in the back are meshing OK, I can feel it and see it with a strong flashlight.
The only thing which made me nervous was the fact that the splines of the clutch boss are protruding about 1/8" further out than the splines on the axis it rides on. And the space between the primary gear nut and the clutch housing is a good 1/8 to 3/16" instead of "nearly touching" as trbig mentioned.
So if my gap and step is normal, I might as well proceed..?
It all looked ok to me until I read Kevin's post.....
Puzzling problems in the evening often resolve into thin air the next morning, in my problem solving experience.
Hoping for the best, thanks for the reply TC. I would not be trying this without you guys out there.

[Kevin W]

Jurgen,
You are flying on this repair! I didn't intend to create a monster with this clutch thing. I mentioned it because of all the trouble I had which I never really figured out why? My repair took about a month for me and I wonder if my clutch basket dried out?
Anyway I don't think my splines were exactly flush and 1/8 on the back gear was the same as mine. I did the same as you and looked to make sure the gears in the back meshed up.
HTH

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Jurgen,

Take a look at this tech tip in the Repairs/Engine section...clutch and extra steel plate , you'll see the photos about the second deeper thrust washer that is down inside the clutch basket, between the clutch BOSS/plate assembly and the basket, which IF misaligned, can prevent the clutch boss from fitting all the way down onto the shaft!!!

T.C.