normal engine operating temperature

[brucealmighty]

I must be one bad ass honkey mo-fo. The time/temp sign read 28 degrees yesterday and I rode on. Forty miles on busy streets and not another biker to be seen. I may have been freezing my gnoches off, but I saved a lot of gas money. The XJ1100 seemed a little sluggish, and that got me to thinking about normal engine operating temperatures. A water cooled engine has a thermostat to keep the engine running within a certain temperature range. Running too hot is bad for the engine, but if it's running too cold, that ain't good either. If running an air cooled bike in hot weather is a problem, you can add an oil cooler. I wouldn't bother with that, as I live in the N.E. USA and the really hot season isn't very long (although getting longer lately). But what if the bike is running too cold? There is no mechanism to prevent the engine temperature from dropping below the ideal operating range. On a ride like I had yesterday, I was thinking that might be a factor. With subfreezing air temps, and a wind chill factor of probably minus 60 degrees on that engine, it's probably never going to completely warm up. Is this a concern, or not?

[XMRGWX]

Too Cold For Comfort ?

I've been out on mine in 13 degree temps for 2 or 3 hours without ill effects that I'm aware of, although I rarely ride below 20.
Your are right, at low temps the oil never comes up to normal operating temperatures. On mine at say even 30 degrees I'm lucky if I see an oil temp above 145 F.
I would just make sure your running the correct weight oil for the temps your operating in and have fun. I also allow extra warm up time -- till the cylinders feel very warm before taking off.
Logic would say the probability of sludge build up would be greater by I've not seen any evidence of it.

-Mike

[stoked]

Mine stops leaking oil when it gets below 30. My right pant leg likes that.

[Renegade]

I haven't ridden my XS in those temps (doesn't get that cold here in Florida), but when I lived up North I rode my Sportster a lot in those temps. Harley sold a replacement dipstick with a thermometer builtin. When I saw that the oil temp was getting too low, I just pulled over for a break and let it idle a few minutes until the oil temp came back up. Preferrably near a coffee shop so that I could warm up a little also. The timing worked out pretty good too. At about the time the oil would get that cold (usually about 40 minutes or so at expressway speeds), my hands were getting pretty cold also. While I was waiting for the oil temp to come back to normal, I stuffed my gloves between the cylinders. When I was ready to continue on my way, the gloves were nice and toasty.

Does anyone make a device to monitor oil temps that would work on the XS?

[Crazcnuk]

Water cooled engines are designed to run in a very narrow temp range, hence the thermostat. Tolerances are closer, etc.

Air coold engines are designed to run over a wide range of temperatures and are not bothered by too cold or too hot, within the norms of what we humans consider tolerable temps.

The only thing in the engine that cares about temp is the oil, which is why they give you a range to use when the temps outside change. As long as your oil is flowing, you should be all right.

The manual only shows a range of temps because the mfgs don't think anyone is silly enough to ride outside those 'normal' operating ranges.

Keep in mind the colder the intake air, the higher the HP!

Back in the late 70's Harley Davidson was wanting to test thier new belt drive system in the 'harsh' Canadian environment. To so this, after all thier freezer testing, they hired 3 guys to ride across Canada in the dead of winter to see how the belts handled the cold.

These guys rode to all the major cities in January and February from the east coast to the west coast. temps of -40 in places, and snow everywhere.

They have pictures of digging the bikes out of snow drifts, where they were parked, when it snowed overnight in places in Manitoba and Saskatchewan. They had to pour boiling water on the engines in many places to get the bikes started in the morning. The bikes were never put inside for the duration of the test.

The test was a success, although they went through a number of speedo drives (still open in those days) and a few other non related parts, they did not break or otherwise harm any of the 3 belt drives.

On a side note, they were also given full sets of electric clothes, to test, for the trip. The one I talked to stated that the only piece he kept was the vest. "If you keep the core warm, the rest stays warm too" were his exact words.

[DiverRay]

I had a VDO Oil Temp gauge on my first '78. The sending unit replaced the oil drain plug, and a single wire ran from it to the gauge. Worked well, and I ended up with an oil cooler because of it! Didn't see too many LOW temps, but then I was riding in rain, not snow/cold.

[John]

The VW Beetle was air cooled, and it can get pretty cold in northern Germany in the winter. The heaters really sucked in them unless you had the gasoline fired heater. Scary thought

[prometheus578]

"Thanks for the memory, John."

Cold in Chicago, too.
My Father, (always the German Engineer) used some dryer vent hose to duct hot air from a manifold around the exhaust to a blower unit under the passenger side dash, on the floor board. From there, a short duct went to the driver's feet, a short hose pointed at the passenger, and a five foot hose went to the back seat, where my brother and I would take turns sticking it under our coats. (1965 Beetle, I think)

[John]

Well, Prom, my old man used to love the VW van, and he drove them for years. We lived in Maine at the time, and I remember he was constantly wiping the inside of the windshield to keep it clear. The vans had the blower and ducting that drew hot (yeah, right) air from the engine and tried to heat the cave of an interior that way. German engineering failed in that one.
Also, most snowmobiles that I was accustomed to in the 70's were all air cooled, so I don't think riding in the cold would hurt anything.

[prometheus578]

"I agree with the snowmobile analogy"

he was constantly wiping the inside of the windshield to keep it clear

Sort of why I keep a squeegie on the dash of my Blazer. Condensation on the windows from all the water leaks around the doors and such.
Vans, don't get me started...!
Back in '85, moved from Ft Benning Ga. back to Chicago in December.
'72 Chevy van... Rode with the heater off as it didn't do much but circulate cold air. Wife was in a sleeping bag, as was I... with one arm and one leg sticking out. Lawdy, that was cold.
Got smarter the next time the Army moved me.
California back to Chicago, again December.
Built a plywood wall behind the driver's area. Behind the wall(with vents cut facing forward) was the blower and heater core from an old Dodge Monaco Police Cruiser. Nice and toasty.

[Crazcnuk]

Actually, the VW heaters worked very well, except for those that didn't really know how it worked.

If you look at any of those old bugs and vans, that people said the heaters didn't work, you find most of the hoses were off or missing, or the thermostat was never set. Also, the rocker panels tended to rust out, which left the main heater pipes exposed to the wind. Another problem was the close off vent covers that were often inoperable making all your heat come out on the floor in the back seat.

I redid a '63 beetle for my ex girlfriend and you could almost burn your fingers at the windshield. I put insulated paper hoses on the engine, set the thermostat, and filled the airspace around the floor heater pipes with expanding foam.

I've owned several beetles, and drove them all winter up here in the land of cold. Never had a problem. The gas heater was only used to wamr the car up quick, while you swept the snow off.

My ex wife had a '68 Karmann Ghia in which the gas heater didn't work, and we never rally missed it.

The super beetles ('68 on) had a deforster fan in the dash as well, that helped to speed up the defrost process.

[brucealmighty]

WOW, I'm impressed with the creative juices flowing here. I love it! If it ain't broke, modify it!
All the talk of the old VW bugs sure brings back some memories, some fond, some not so. I drove a '66 from Connecticut to Miami, Florida, fortunately not during the winter. I kept driving it even after the floor rotted out and fell away, making it into a sort of Fred Flinstone car. I got splashed in the face whenever I drove through a puddle. It got 45 mpg. Funny they haven't improved on that after all these years.
I'm wondering why the HP is higher when the engine is colder. Is that because everything contracts, making the engine is tighter? But, as I pointed out, the bike seemed to be a big sluggish the other day in subfreezing temps. Maybe unrelated to the ambient temperature, but I was wondering.

[John]

The HP is up because cold air is denser, and it has more oxygen per cubic foot than hot air does. That's why turbo'd engines have an intercooler, is to cool the air, so it has more oxygen. Jet aircraft runs so much better when it is cold as it is sucking in all nice cold, fat air. Ever hear a jet run up and take off in cold weather? The exhaust seems to snap and pop and growl as it rolls down the runway. It really is an awesome sound. Sheer power. (Insert Tim Allen grunt here). You don't hear that sound on a hot day.

[skids]

If the engine runs better when cold, it is running too rich when it is at normal temperatures. When it is cold, the gasoline is not completely vaporized and the droplets do not "explode" with the other gases, thus the engine thinks it is running leaner. At least that is what my engine has been telling me.

[Crazcnuk]

On my ex girlfreind's 63 I replaced the entire floor, lower rockers with heater channels and the enitre lower lip of the upper body, where it met the floor. It was all rusting out. it was while doing this that I realized the heater channels are just a long rectangular box with a pipe going down the center. I got some non-water absorbing expanding foam and blew it into the rectangular channel through the holes where the lower door weatherstripping hooks on to it. The extra insulation helped the heat make it to the front of the car.

At -30C she would start the car, turn on the gas heater, and scrape the frost off the windows. By the time she was ready to go, she could shut the gas heater off and go.

If you drive with the gas heater on it drops fuel mileage about 10mpg.