Swapping Special Engine into Standard

[hollywoodxs1100]

Hi, all. I've been away from the forum for a little over a year, since my '79 Special suffered from a broken frame.

This past weekend, I picked up my new bike, a '78 Standard, for $180. The engine and tranny on the Standard are shot, so I'm going to swap in the engine and tranny from my '79 Special.

What are the differences in the engines?

Will this work?

What, if anything, should I keep from the Standard engine /tranny?

Do the trannies have different ratios to accomodate for the smaller back wheel of the Special?

[motoman]

Just don't get confused and put the old one back in.(no difference).

[snowdog51]

frame

how in the word could your frame break?
as ever bill

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Hollywood,

Like Motoman said, no differences! Depending on whether you liked the style of the Special vs. your newly acquired Standard, you may also be able to swap many of the cosmetics to make/keep the Special look. The smaller wheel will fit since you already have the needed spacers and such on your SF! Also, IF your SF has tubeless rims, you'll probably want to keep those anyways, instead of the TUBED 78E's! But if your 79 requires TUBES, then you might like the slightly higher gearing the 17" "E" wheel will provide vs. the 79's 16"!

To use your Special front end/forks, you'll want to swap the entire front end, TT's and all onto the "E" frame. The gastank will swap that way you can use your SF petcocks and such.
However, if you want to make the steering a little easier/lighter/quicker, then put the Special TT's on, but then use the 78's forks.

The Ignition system is the same, plug and play.
T.C.

[hollywoodxs1100]

I liked ther looks of the Special better, with the round signals, gauges and light. I'll be swapping all of the round stuff over. I may have to use the Special tank, as I didn't get any keys with the Standard.

The Standard that I've got has an unfortunate looking king/queen seat, so I'll be looking for a stock style seat.

On your advice, I'll use my tubeless '79 wheels. Better for me, as the tires are only a year old. The Standard hasn't been on the road since '94.

Thanks for the info, and I'll keep you posted on my progress, hopefully with pics to come. She's quite a beast now, so I'm calling her "Medusa."

[fredintoon]

"However, if you want to make the steering a little easier/lighter/quicker, then put the Special TT's on, but then use the 78's forks. "

Hi TC,
I think you got that backwards.
From the factory, Standards & Specials have the same steering trail. Although the Special's front axle is in front of the fork slider instead of underneath it, the Special's TTs are shorter to compensate. The change in "look" is strictly cosmetic.
Standard TTs & Special fork legs moves the front wheel forward from the stock position and thus lessens the steering trail. It's what I did to my sidecar rig to make it steer easier. OTOH, Special TTs & Standard fork legs moves the front wheel back from the stock position and thus would increase the steering trail to make the steering harder/heavier/slower.

[rover]

Hey, Hollywood, save yourself the bother. I can be in CA in three days to take all that stuff off your hands. Then you won't have to go thru all the hassle. Just joking, good luck with your project. You will end up with an ESF

[John]

Back to the original question...The engines will bolt right in, there are no differences, but you may need to swap the exhaust flange studs, as they are different in length between the two models...providing they are the stock studs. I don't remember which model had the longer or shorter studs.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Fred,

Thanks again for keeping me straight! I have some sort of mental block about this mod! I am very visual, and I keep picturing in my mind about the Special's TT's being closer angled, and I improperly link that with MY FRAME RAKE mod, which has made my steering very light!

But I also remember drawing/diagraming out the actual Trail measurement process with the Special/Standard forks and TT swaps, and surprisingly, due to the variation with the different axle placements, using the special TT's and Std. forks does increase the TRAIL and makes steering heavier!

I need to get YOU to write up a MOD tech tip, with diagrams and such to help my feeble memory!
T.C.

PS:
So..to help make this clear for Hollywood, IF he wants to lighten his steering, he needs to keep his Std TT's and use his Special Forks, right!
And if he wants to retain the same amount of trail/steering feel, then he needs to use his entire TT/Forks combo!?

[Crazcnuk]

You do need to put the longer standard studs onto the special engine, or you won't have room for the gaskets.

I am running an '81 special engine in my '80 std, thx to Andreas.

Everything is exactly the same, with the exception of the exhaust studs, and it's a 10 minute deal to change them.

[vinxse]

Hey Hollywood,

Any locksmith should be able to make keys for your standard tank using the #s on the lock cylinder. I did this swap last year, maybe bring a key from the special so he could get an idea about overall size and style of blank to cut.

Good Luck and Happy Riding!
Vinxse

[tarzan]

You shouldnt even need to take the locksmith a key.My bike didnt have the keys when I bought it.I took a number off the lock and the guy cut the key from that number.I think he charged me $20 IIRC.They can look the number up in a book.It also tells them what blank to use.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Vinxse and Tarzan,

You might want to look at the DATE of the last post on a thread before you reply to it! That one was a YEAR OLD, they probably got it done by now!
T.C.

[tarzan]

Didnt even notice TC.

[hollywoodxs1100]

Here's how the story ended...

Never got a key for the standard tank. Gave it away to a lister. Got the bike built. Test drove it, got pulled over and ticketed for no insurance no registration on my test drive. DMV refused to title it for me because I did not have a "statement of facts" from the previous owner of the frame stating where it had been for the preceeding 7 years. I sold it for $600 as a parts bike. The guy who bought it from me was able to get it registered, but it cost him $450. The tickets I got that day on my test drive cost me well over $600.
I'm now riding a commuter bike, 76 Honda CB200. BIG change.