High RPMs To launch

[madmax-im]

I seem to think the clutch lever and cable are fine but I did have the clutch plates replaced with new ones so maybe there is a problem with the rebuild...ok I am going to fire up the Max and take him out

[TopCatGr58]

Hey MadMax-im,

Okay, I warned you, but here goes!

I am thinking that you are talking about the Dyno Jet Kits! The Stage III is a LOT of jetting, and with an otherwise unmodded XJ, ie. no new larger pistons, hotter cams, etc., just the 4-1 pipes and Indy filters. Also IIRC(if I remember correctly) part of the install process involves drilling the vent hole in the vacuum slide of the carb a little bigger to allow it to rise quicker for allegedly faster throttle response! Also IIRC DynoJet isn't making these kits for the XS11 anymore?

So....yes, you may be getting too much fuel in the pilot circuit, but it may also be that the vacuum slides are rising too quickly in the lower rpms accessing the mains before the rpms rise enough to handle it until you get to the 4k+ range!?

The screws Rob told you about are the Pilot screws, but the pilot JETS are under the float bowls, along with the main jets of course. The XJ carbs don't allow as much adjustment in the vacuum slide needles without the use of washers for shims, vs. the older XS's that have 5 slots and a "C" ring for ease of tuning.

But first, back to basics. These machines have plenty of power, and having to rev to 4K to get it rolling is often a symptom of running on less than 4 cylinders, so you'll want to test for that, first by checking for spark on each cylinder, but also inspect your plugs...can have gotten fuel fouled and not firing! Then use some water to spritz the pipes when the bike is idling to see if they are ALL getting warm, hot. IF you have a cold/cool cylinder(s) then depending on how many and which ones will direct you to other diagnostics...either (most likley carbs) but also possibly ignition!

Finally, the XJ has the YICS system, and depending on whether the MC shop knew about it(even though it's stamped on the engine) they may not have known what it was or what was needed to properly tune it.....a special tool is needed to block off the YICS channels in the head during carb vacuum synchronizing,otherwise they may not be balanced properly!

Okay, that'll get you started, come on back with what you find and we'll go from there!
T.C.

[madmax-im]

Ok just came back from an hour and a 1/2 of cruzin and stop and go launching...these are my updated observations.There is no fuel problem...If I launch at 3000 rpms or under the first gear is ok but might slip if I accelerate harder like around 3500-4000 rpms.If I launch at 3500-4000 rpms first gear might slip but typically it is grabbing ok.So I believe my problem has to do with the clutch or clutch plates.My clutch lever feels ok and this problem only occurs in first gear.So as part of a solution...I have tried to limit acceleration in first gear and just wait till its in second and this seems to work ok.I also found that my idle was high and I adjusted it back down to approx.1100RPMs.The tach was indicating 1600 rpms!Also since this bike has less than a 1k miles since being rebuilt perhaps the clutch plates need to be worn in a bit more.Overall it isn't really that bad and the Max is quite rideable.Thanks to all for your input....TC...it seems I wont have to tear into the carbs after all(PHEW!).I am nooooooo mechanic and this sort of stuff is not what I would do myself.Although it would be cheaper to do it myself ..I have plenty of $ so that is no object LOL.I might take it to a good Yamaha service dept...I know of one abt 20 mins from here!

[TopCatGr58]

Hey again MadMax,

The clutch slipping most always happens in the higher gears when there is more stress on the clutches due to less leverage, but almost never in the lower gears. You say it's slipping, but the 1st/2nd gear problem that occurs with these machines is more like a jumping out and in, not just a slipping where the rpms rise but the bike doesn't go any faster!

What type of oil are you running? Full synth's are known to cause slippage with our wet clutches.

There are two adjustments to the clutch cable, one at the handlebar, the other at the engine cover. But I still don't think it's the clutch or the cables, it just doesn't sound like that's the problem though!? But wouldn't hurt to check them. What it could be is a sticking clutch cable that isn't fully releasing after a full pull, but once in gear you may not be pulling it as hard/much to do your shifts, and with the engine vibrations and such, the cable may slide and release more allowing more grip??

Try taking it out again, get it up to 50mph or so in 5th gear and then try to do a full throttle roll on, and see if the clutch slips then. IF it does, then the springs may be weak, providing synth oil isn't the problem.

Well, hate to tell you this, but you will be hard pressed to find a Yamaha Dealer that will work on your machine! Most of them don't want to touch anything more than 10 years old, it's not cost effective for them, and may not be able to find a mech with the required experience with our old machines to do any job properly!

That's why this site has been so instrumental to it's members, cause most folks have found that they have had to learn to do the work themselves to get it done right if at all!
T.C.

[madmax-im]

TC interesting points...I am sure the clutch lever an cables are adjusted right..this problem is only in 1st gear.I have done 50+ mph 5th gear roll on accels..just did that today no slippage...as far as a synthetic oil that could be the cause of the slippage ...as I dont know what type of oil the shop used...if it had any moly in it then I could see how that might be the root of the problem...so if I change out the oil or better yet how would I flush out the present oil?Wouldn't there still be some residual oil left?As far as a Yamaha dlr service dept....hmmmmmm you prolly got me there..didn't think abt that oneone more note I call this a slippage but it more accurately could be described as the feeling it is jumping because the first gear starts pulling then it jumps as the revs go up and the gear has a lapse then it grabs again...the shifter never jumps out of the gear..has me stumped

[olebiker]

Sounds like the tranny.

[madmax-im]

olebiker..all the yrs I have had this bike it never did this until I had the clutch rebuild and the other performance mods done this past spring that said you still could be right

[TopCatGr58]

Aha,

Now the symptoms are more in line with what "we" were suspecting, the dreaded 2nd/1st gear skipping syndrome! If you'll go to the tech tips from the main forum page, scroll down to REPAIRS, TRANNY, you'll find several articles about the problem and ways to repair it, but it does involve a fair amount of wrenching!

My 81 started skipping in 1st, so I started babying it, and started using 2nd instead, but 2nd failed a few months later with the same symptoms, so I parked it! This was back in '92 when I didn't know about the problem, nor had the $$ to fix it! 8 years later, I found the XS11 Yahoo group, and Ken's Wonderful tips on the Dremmel fix, and was able to repair it using that info!

You might want to look into finding a fellow Xsive that could assist you, or even do the work for what I would believe would be a fairer price than what a dealer would charge, you would get it done right, and also help put a few $$'s into a fellow XSive's wallet, so he could afford some bling or parts for his bike!

So....now that we're pretty sure it's the tranny and not the clutch, then there's not as much of a rush to change the oil, but when you do perform that, you can use some Mystery Marvel Oil to help flush out the possible synth components prior to filling with good DINO juice!
T.C.

[madmax-im]

TC now it sounds like we are gettin somewhere..looks like I have some reading to do ...I appreciate all your help and I wonder if there are any other xsives in my area(Trenton,NJ).Thanks again..I will keep you all informed as to how the Max is doing.

[madmax-im]

TC the articles mentioned talk abt the shift lever popping out of gear...I am not experiencing this symptom Also the articles relate to 2nd gear and I have no problems with 2nd gear.I did read abt the clunk from neutral to 1st gear when standing still,I get that clunk too.I also have discovered that its best to slow the bike with the brakes rather than with the xnsmission.I also downshift into 1st at abt 5 mph and hold the clutch while stopped.So I am not so sure of what to do but if there were someone in this area that could be of assistance then I would feel better abt tearing into the tranny to see just WTF is going on.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Ben,

See this tech tip/pictorial about the 1st/2nd gear Dremmel fix! The Gear shift lever will NOT be moving, it's just the gears on the countershaft that are popping out and then back into position as they ride on the dogs and slots of the gears that are trying to stay meshed together, but get rounded off from wear and then pull apart=skip under load=your new mods!
T.C. I sent you a PM!

[madmax-im]

wow TC this is really incredible amt of info!!!I am too tired to read it tonite but you can be sure I will tomorrow!Iwill still need alot of help here....did I see the bike upside down?Holy Toledo! ok good nite and Thanks for the offer(PM) BEN

[olebiker]

Originally posted by madmax-im
olebiker..all the yrs I have had this bike it never did this until I had the clutch rebuild and the other performance mods done this past spring that said you still could be right

Makes sense if you think about it, your bike now is more powerful plus if your clutch was slipping some before then you didn't get the kind of torque to the tranny that you do now.

[mro]

Been busy and missed posts.
What olebiker says makes sense and TC has pointed you in the right direction altho think there are bike shops around that will/can work on our bikes competently.

Still may have a carb problem. Normal take off like at a stop light in traffic and the XS needs little throttle to get going till clutch has been released and should accelerate smoothly from 1000/1200 rpm up. Nones of my XSes have experienced a tranny problem yet (only 13,000 to 33,000 miles on em except one) but does sound like you may have.

mro

[madmax-im]

TC,Olebiker,mro...I appreciate all the wisdom and common sense advice.I am printing out all the info the TC linked me to from last night.There is a reputable Yamaha service dept that I have dealt with for many years.So I will bring them the infor. on what needs to be done and see what they say...then I will take it from there.