Bike finally running and on the road!

[Gyrogearloose]

Howdy there. Still trying to get the oil drain plug out? I had the same problem w/PO overtightening it. Well, first make sure you luse 6 sided sockets; regular ones can actually flex a little and long/short of it, will round off the bolt head. Anyway, tip #2, use impact sockets, if you have access to them, and the biggest ratchet you can manage (I ended up with my 3/4 drive one). Also spray the bolt liberally with WD40 or SP2, and let it soak for an hour. It's worth it; a rounded off bolt head is a real problem. Oh, and while your using muscle to try and break it loose?..very careful, STEADY pressure, with only slight increments in heft. Good luck. Hope these tips help.

[TopCatGr58]

Originally posted by manshack_one
The PO did all the fiddling. I'm trying to adjust everything back to stock specs. The idle mixture screws were all the way out so I turned those back down. It still tries to idle too high after warming up. The choke will flood it almost instantly and I only have to pull it out for about 2 seconds then start it and immediately push it back in. I haven't touched the sync screws yet.

Hey Manshack,

IF you turned those pilot screws ALL the way down until they seated, then you are running way too lean, and that's why it has a high idle! They should be about 1.5 turns OUT from a gentle seat, they are both air/fuel mix screws, not just air!

I thought you had the bike worked on, but I think it was just electrical, or did the mech work on the carbs also??? I didn't review the entire thread!

Knowing what size jets will help, but sometimes a PO will have gotten the wrong ones(PILOT JETS) from a "kit", commonly the K&L and they don't use the same sizing, so they are known to be too rich. What do your plugs look like? If black dry sooty, then they are possibly too rich? Also, the pilot jet towers should be capped....since they get their fuel thru the mains. IF they are not capped, the pilot/idle circuit will again be too rich since it's getting fuel directly from the bowl instead of metering thru the mains!
T.C.

[manshack_one]

Yeah I realize the thread has gotten pretty convoluted. Here's where I've been:

New battery. Removed octopus, ran fuel for Prime only. I replaced Accel coils (CDI) with stock coils. Buddy mechanic replaced pickup coil assy. Bike would then start but flooded in about 4 minutes. Brought bike back, found idle screws all the way out and put them back to 1 1/4. Found kinked fuel hoses and fixed those.

Where I'm at now:
Lots of black smoke. Plugs are carbon fouled real bad. Choke has no effect other than flooding the bike after idling for a minute or so. Seems to idle after warmed up but rough, with lots of smoke and at 2K rpms. Idle speed knob is all the way down.

What I'm going to do next:
Pull the carbs and double check jetting and float levels for '79 Special factory specs. Bread tie sync on the bench. Reinstall and report back.

Could you explain some more about the caps you're talking about? Maybe a picture?

Thanks again for everyone's help. Couldn't have gotten this far without you guys!

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Manshack,

Here's a photo of some 79 carbs I cleaned up last year, the main jet is next to the float, but there is a straight slotted screw that is fitted into/onto the Pilot Jet Tower!


Good idea to pull the carbs, and the jets, clean them, and the main needle jet/nozzle.....the thing the main jet is screwed into, and the vacuum slide needle slides into! If your pilot jet towers are not capped, you can get rubber caps separately for them from MikesXS, as well as in carb kits! The pilot jet towers should have a threaded section that you could find a large head screw to fit into!

There has been posted another technique for bench synching carbs besides the bread stick tie, using the 3 holes in the top front of the carb throat at the butterflies! Adjust the butterflies so that they are partially covering the closest hole to where the butterflies would be totally shut!

While you're at MikesXS, look at the jets section, the Pilot jets, there's a nice diagram on the differences between the VM and the BS style, make sure your pilot jets are the right BS style! The PO might have put in a carb kit with faulty K&L pilots in that they don't use the same metering scale, so they were often to big=too rich!! Good luck and report back!
T.C.

[manshack_one]

Pulled the carbs and the only two peices I can get numbers on are 180's on the front and 137 accross the board on the mains. So it would appear to be setup correctly for a 79. I did have one diaphragm that looked like the outer ring crumpled and pinched but should have affected this problem. #2 wasn't firing well before and there was a gas pooled up trying to back into the airbox when I dropped the carbs down. I disassembled and bench synced the whole set. Everything is clean so I suppose I'll reassemble, double check float height and see how it runs. I'll report back later.

[Gyrogearloose]

This is all very interesting, since I'm going to do a carb tear-down and clean up action pretty soon. Are you going to use a carb kit to put back together? Good luck.

[manshack_one]

Supposedly the PO used a carb kit recently. I could never get a straight answer on whether the carb kit was because it was having problems or if it was having problems because of the carb kit. I'm leaning toward it having problems before. They were going through the bike peice by peice and replacing things trying to get it running. If they'd only found you guys the bike might have been running a long time ago (but then I wouldn't have gotten it for such a steal of a price) My jets would appear to be the right ones and they're clean as a whistle so no sense putting newer ones in. Everything seems to be opened on the carbs because carb cleaner shoots through everywhere there should be an opening. The only thing I couldn't remove the other day were the emulsion tubes down the middle. If after resetting the float height (or maybe even down an extra mm or two) and reassembling I'll let everyone know how they run at that point.

[AlanB]

Hi Manshack,

Emulsion tubes are a favourite for being blocked, and a lso a favourite for being supplied wrong in kits.......

Either way, they need to come out! Push 'em from the bottom, don't try to pull 'em from the top!

AlanB

[manshack_one]

Got them out with a little wd40 and a needle nose from the top so I was pulling instead of pushing. All I can see is a 266 inscribed on them. clean as a whistle again. Does that number sound right?

[manshack_one]

One other thing, I had pulled the carbs off and double checked the jetting which turned out ok for 79 special. What didnt' turn out ok was the float levels which were down to 21mm! I yanked 'em all back up to 26. Figured I'd rather start lean. Anyways, put 'em back on the bike last night but had to stop right at getting the throttle cable hooked up. Man, I re-iterate right now that I don't mind working on the carbs, I just hate wrestling those boogers out of and back into the boots! When the money allows for it I'm getting a set of pod filters or something. Anyways, at lunch I ran out to the garage and hooked the cable and gas tank back up. Set her to prime and gave it a few seconds then fired her up. She roared to life after a few sputters and jumped up to 4K. I reached in and turned out the idle speed screw which got it down to under 2 but during the whole time I was gassing my self with blue smoke. That's right, I can now see it clearly and it's blue. If I remember right, that's going to be oil? On the plus side it seems the carbs are going to be ok except for the idle part. I need a gasket for #2 exhaust as it turns out it's missing one. So, the only way it could be burning this much oil is if the valve seals are leaking right? Man, just when i thought I was getting somewhere. Oh, but the engine does sound a ton smoother after resetting the floats and bench sync'ing the carbs. This monster revs high and quick so I believe my mains will be AOK if I can ever get it on the road to test!

So, I guess the next topic will be getting rid of blue smoke. Thoughts? Prayers?

On a personal note, I just want to say again that I would have never gotten this far without everyone at the forum chiming in time and again. This is my first bike and I'm amazed at how much i've learned while getting it running. Sure, I might be enjoying my self if I'd just bought a sportster or something but I wouldn't be as happy as I'm going to be when I get this monster on the road!

[AlanB]

Hi Manshack,

Don't get too worried about the smoke yet: the motor has had a ton of unburnt fuel tipped down it, it has run rich, lean, with dead cylinders and all sorts!

Get it running, get it out, get it hot and burn all the cr@p out of it. Change the oil (and probably the plugs; they don't like being flooded!), reset the carbs (synch and pilots!) and THEN see if it smokes!

Have fun; you are getting there.

AlanB

[manshack_one]

"Get it running, get it out, get it hot and burn all the cr@p out of it"

I LOVE YOUR ATTITUDE!

I'm working on changing the oil right now. Someone must have used an impact driver on it last time or something. I do need an exhaust gasket on #2 though. Then there's those pesky rear brakes that don't work yet. Oh well, front's should be good enough right?

Can you just clean the plugs with a little gas and scrub brush of some kind? Just temporarily?

[AlanB]

Hi Manshack,

Just getting them hot in a clean-running engine should get 'em pretty clean, but there seems to be something in modern gas (at least over here!) which means that once a plug has been soaked in unburnt fuel (like, been in a cylinder which is not firing or is flooded!) they never seem to work well again!

I am sure it was not always this way, but I have had this sort of problem a lot over the last few years.

Any comments from anyone else?

AlanB

[manshack_one]

Got the oil changed last night. Boy did it ever reek of gas! Old gas too. Also, I was thinking the sight gauge for the oil was fogged up or something because even on the centerstand I couldnt' see anything but my reflection. Well, when that drain plug came off and the "gasoil" came flooding out of it at a high rate, filling my container too quickly and over flowing, I realized there just might be more than 3 quarts in there. All told I feel like there had to have been at least 6 quarts in there. Another sign that the PO's didn't have a clue how to treat the XS11 to a proper oil change and filled it up while on the kickstand. I imagine that could have something to do with my smoking problem. Anyways, after cleaning up that mess and getting the new filter on I now have exactly the right amount of oil, which is a beautiful honey color, and can be seen on the gauge along with whatever sprocket that is behind the window. So, going through my mind I figured I've got the carbs synced up and floating right, i've got the engine cleared of the "gasoil" problem so it's time to fire it up right? Well, the battery disagreed with me. On the charger it went. Ran out this morning and pulled it back off but didn't have time to fool with it as the kids were already in the van and late for school. Maybe tonight I'll get that first test ride. I think I'll drive it straight to the parts store for a new set of plugs so I can compare the ride there to the ride back. More to follow.

[Ken Talbot]

Originally posted by manshack_one
Another sign that the PO's didn't have a clue how to treat the XS11 to a proper oil change and filled it up while on the kickstand.

Good catch on the oil level, manshack. As you have corrected, the oil needs to be filled to the marks on the sight glass while the bike is upright, ideally on the centrestand.