What the........

[viaquest]

This is trbig on viacom's account...

I don't know what the difference is, but I remembered seeing that in my book, but it says,

Fill the oil filter with @ .5 L engine oil and install filter.

"CAUTION
The filter must be filled with the specified amount of oil to prime the oil pump of an overhauled engine"

So... sorry. I guess it doesn't apply for just a regular oil change.


Tod

[Stralya]

Hey Tod

I'm overhauling my engine so I'll fill the filter and see what happens

Dan

[Hammerhead1st]

Re: BFH

Originally posted by Stralya
What are Ice tyres? I've never seen snow in my life. I don't know about such things. I just get on my bike and go 365 a year.

We also have excellent beer.

Off colour joke.

Why is American beer a lot like making love in a canoe?

Because it's f*c*i*g close to water!

Ice tires are like dirt tires, except we install small screws into the knobbies with specially cut heads, so they can dig into ice and snow and give the bike traction. I know a guy here who rides all year long. I envy him...

[TopCatGr58]

Hopefully a Friendly Debate?

Hey Tod,

I'm not trying to get into a technical pissing contest here!
Heaven knows I'm not a professional mechanic or electrician, or even a machinist, just a hobbyist/enthusiast. I'm just going by my personal experience with this engine. I value your experiences with these machines and your willingness to share that knowledge with those in need. I'm not perfect and have posted my share of oopses, mistakes, and the other MORE KNOWLEDGABLE fine folks here at channel 11 have set me straight. So...please just consider this a technical "discussion" about this matter in question!

Clymers page 94, section 7-8:
7. Make sure the O-ring seal (figure 129) is in good condition:replace if necessary.
this is about the O-ring between the pump and engine case.
8. Pour some new engine oil into the opening(figure 130) of the oil pump to prime it, prior to installing the pick-up screen assembly.

Reviewed the copy of the HAYNES manual I have on CD, and it states:[quote]When renewing the (filter) element, it is wise to renew the chamber O-ring to prevent possible leaks. Note that the filter chamber should be primed whenever a new filter is fitted. This is accomplished by adding about a half a pint of engine oil prior to fitting the filter assembly to the underside of the crankcase. Do not overtighten the filter centre bolt: etc.[quote]

The Yamaha service manual re. reinstallation of oil pump.

CAUTION: Failure to properly prime the oil pump will cause extensive engine damage when the engine is started. Fill the oil pump with Yamahlube 4-cycle oil.

So...yes, priming the pump is critical, but seems to me by the above that it's a direct priming of the pump itself during removal and re-installation. Haynes does recommend putting oil in the filter chamber during oil changes, but it's not to prime the pump, but to have more oil available to start being "PUSHED" by the pump into the engine as it's pulling oil up from the sump, so that it wouldn't just be pushing a bunch of air for several engine revolutions prior to the pump refilling the filter chamber and then getting it up into the engine!

I can't find a copy of the Engine Oil flow diagram ONLINE, there's one on Clymer's Page 93, diagram 123 that illustrates the flow from the sump, thru the pump and into the oil filter chamber!
T.C.

[trbig]

No pissing contest intended T.C. I had simply remembered reading that, and wrote in here before checking it out. In the normal oil changing procedures, it doesn't state to do that. I was just wondering what the difference was between the normal oil changing and the engine overhaul that makes it different... besides the oil pump having NO oil in it.

Not quite sure what I wrote to make you think I was upset... but no foul called.

Tod

[petejw]

Stralya,
you dont need to prime
urs, its only the top half of the engine we're workin on.
there is still oil in ur pump
and in the oil lines,

mayb thats where the 3 lts of oil went to. lol :-)

[planedick]

Simple me

I just remove the spark plugs and run the starter until the oil light goes out to prime everything...

[79XS11F]

Originally posted by skids
Tod, I have never done that and never had problems. If you are speaking of the oil filter housing, I would think it whould be damn difficult to install with oil in the housing beings how the seal is around the bolt. Am I being dense?

I also have never primed the oil pump on a rebuild with out any issues. I also use assembly grease or assembly oil for all rebuilding.
Rob

If you can't see you oil through the sight glass, and no oil comes out of the engine when you remove the oil drain plug and there's no puddle of oil under the bike ... then I would have to say that you forgot to put the oil in when you did that last oil change. It's the only answer to this riddle that makes sense. I really don't see 3 liters of oil "hiding" somewhere in your engine.
Rob

[79XS11F]

What I never understood about the oil pump priming is ... they do indeed tell you to prime that pump by putting oil down the pickup before replacing the screen. I just figured that any oil added there would flow out as soon as the engine is right side up so what purpose does it serve other then to perhaps lube the the inside of the pump? Perhaps it is more critical when the oil pump has been full disassembled and cleaned. I could see an issue if all the inner workings of the pump were completely DRY after a full cleaning. I however have not on any of my rebuilds disassembled the oil pump for a complete cleaning so that may be why I have not had an issue with my non primed rebuilds.
Rob

[Stralya]

Could this be the problem?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ken Talbot
[B]Oil coming out of the airbox vent could be from a grossly overfilled crankcase. This happenned to me whan I bought Tsunami from a guy who never actually rode it or got to know about is from the guy he bought it from. He didn't know how to check the oil level with the sight glass on the right side, so just filled it to the bottom of the filler hole like you would do with an old Briggs and Stratton.

Hi Ken and all.

I have oil dripping out of my airbox as well. Same place, the vent hole at the bottom.

Here's the wierd thing though, I removed the oil filter housing knowing there was very little oil in there because of a persistent leak at the oil filter housing. On removal, no oil spilled out AND YET the oil level inspection window was showing overfull!!!

It seems to me that I have some sort of blockage somehwere.

Bear in mind that the head has just been serviced and the pistons and rings are brand new so I can't be getting any blowback.

I'm getting oil pressure, the oil light goes out soon after I start cranking so it must be circulating.

I'm at a loss yet again.

Dan

[79XS11F]

your going to see some "blow by" until the rings are fully mated or matched to the bores. Is the air filter the "oiled" type. if so it could just be filter oil.
If over full drain some out until the level is at the top mark in the window with the bike on main stand on a level surface.
Rob

[Stralya]

It's on the centre stand, I undo the oil filter housing and no oil comes out yet the window shows overfull, completely filled in, no air at all. i'm buggered if I know.

The air filter is the oiled type but it's not air filter oil, it's black crankcase oil.

[79XS11F]

OK so no oil in the oil filter cover... Did you maybe leave a rag in there when doing the rebuilding. some folks ..myself included will stick small rages into all engine holes during a rebuild.
If you think the oil pump needs to be primed you could possibly prime it by forcing oil down through the oil pressure switch hole on the case behind the cylinders. or maybe through the gallery cap bolt at the side. you would for sure see oil come out that hole if you turn the engine over with ether bolt out of position. that will tell you if the pump is primed and working.
Rob

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Dan/Stralya,

No oil in the filter cup does not sound good! You've already driven this bike quite a bit, and like you said, the oil light goes out after a few seconds of running, so it's getting pumped somewhere!

The pump sends it to the filter cup 1st, and then up thru that mounting bolt into the engine, acrond the crank, and the Primary shaft, main axle, drive axle, and also up to the cams!

So..perhaps your oil leak is actually around the securing bolt, that little O-ring perhaps not sealing properly, and it leaked out before you removed the cup!? You could get a bucket/bowl and pull the plugs, and then tap the engine over to ensure that oil is squirting out thru the supply hole in the rear of the filter chamber, just for peace of mind!

Also, you might want to drain your oil and check for presence of gas in it? Did you try with an assistant, leaning the bike far to the left to see if you could see the fill line show up!? Did you remember to clean the site glass when you had it off?
Good Luck!
T.C.

[GNEPIG]

Hey, you do have the spring and washer under the filter in the cup/ holding the filter up, right? (I know it' a stupid question, but had to ask/ it happens)
I'm not sure how much a liter is, but I think it is more than a quart. These things are only suposed to hold 3 quarts, plus the extra half quart for the filter housing. If you put too much oil in, then you won't see the bubble in the top of the site glass(something else that happens).

One easy/redneck way to test for oil pressure, would be to start the bike then loosen the banjo bolt on the top of the oil line that goes into the back of the head. If lots of oil squirts out when loosened then you have pressure.

You could remove the sparkplugs from the head, then remove the oil filter housing, have a buddy opperate the starter button and watch to see if oil squirts out of where the filter belongs when your buddy turns it over.
These tests might give you more clues as to whats going on.