Help Poor Trbig!!

[trbig]

Instead of opening several threads along the way here, I'll just post whatever problems I have here.

OK... next problem. I have never tried to get the gears out without splitting the cases. Here's where I'm at so far.












How do I get the shift forks out of the way to be able to pull the gears out? In the second pic, as you're looking at the motor, the fork on the left side came out, but the other two don't seem to have room to. I have removed the shaft that those forks slide on. Help please??

Tod

[TopCatGr58]

Okay,

First, did you make sure you had it in 4th gear, as per the tech tips? That rotates the shift drum so that you can position the shift forks back down into the engine.

Secondly, you need to slide 5th gear out the side, but you may not be able to until you rotate the shift drum which will allow you to move that shift fork away from the 5th gear wheel!?

Once you do that, then you will have wiggle room to lift the countershaft up and out!
T.C.

[trbig]

I've rotated the barrel through ALL the gears, but I don't see how there's any more room to get them out. I'll try again later.

Tod

[TopCatGr58]

Tod,

IIRC, I just slid the forks Up/forward towards the front of the bike away from the shift drum channel, out of their guide grooves, leaving them in the engine. This allows them to slide down a bit into the engine, and away from the gear....5th gear specifically, I think I had to rotate the middle fork so that it was sideways. Also, you should be able to slide the countershaft a little towards the hole, then you should be able to lift it up just enough to also allow movement of that shift fork that's holding 5th gear in place, and finally get it out thru the side of the engine!
T.C.

[trbig]

OK,

I know about moving the washer between 2nd and 5th gear to the backside of 2nd to engage the 5th gear dogs into it a tad bit deeper... would it help to find a thinner washer or grind the existing one thinner between 1st and 4th gear here?



Would it help these dogs engage 1st a little bit more?

Thanks.

Tod

[trbig]

If anyone knows the answer it would be helpfull. I'll be doing the fix on 3 sets of gears tomorrow, and I was told by viaquest that 1st gear was pretty bad.

Thanks.

Tod

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Tod,

Here's a photo from the tech tips showing 4th gear engaged with 1st gear:


As you can see, the 4th gear seems to actually sit down inside the 1st gear! The fiche description for that washer shows it 2.00mm thick, so IF you are able to thin it down 1mm, it "might" allow the gears to engage 1mm more, but not sure what level of stress is on that washer and whether a 1mm thick washer would be sufficient vs. Yamaha having a 2mm thick one in that position??

The 4th/1st gear has 6 dogs/slots to hold vs. the other gears that only use 3 dogs/slots. You might try putting the gears together with and then without the washer to see IF it does allow more engagement! How were you going to thin the washer? Good luck, let us know!
T.C.

[trbig]

I may be wrong in my thinking, but with 6 dogs engaging it and the gear being solid instead of cut-out like the rest of them, they intended this gear to be a bit stouter and handle more stress than the rest. It seems that the washer being thinner may help if it gets 1st closer, but the dogs and 4th gear can only come so far, then they hit that spring clip keeper. So 1st would have to come closer to the dogs. The parts all fit together pretty solidly, so I think that if you took 1mm away from the washer between 1st and 4th, to keep the middle drive gear and 1st from wallowing back and forth, you'd have to put another 1mm washer on the back side of the middle drive between the clip on the outside of that gear and the clip out there to take up the slack. This would essentially move the middle drive gear and 1st gear 1mm closer to 4th.

I wonder if you can buy a 1mm thick washer this size? I'd like to try it sometime. I don't think it would be enough to worry about the dogs and 1st not disengaging... you're not talking much movement. BUT.. there's not much "Meat" those dogs are contacting... so 1mm might make a BIG difference. I just went and checked, and neither washer on either set of gears I have has any wear to it, so it's not like their taking a beating in there.

Any other thoughts?

Tod

[trbig]

It would be kind of a pain in the butt.. but a guy could take a couple of these washers and use a grinding wheel lightly on them to remove the chunk of the material... then wet sand on a flat surface to true it up again.. Use some calipers to measure and you should be able to get it pretty close. It would just take a little time.... but surely no more than it took to clean up some of my sidecovers! it would definately be easier of you could just buy them.

Tod

[TopCatGr58]

Why work so hard?

Hey Tod,

Why work so hard, look what I found just searching on McMasterCarr's site:

Yamaha Washer Specs:
washer 30.2mm ID, 43mmOD, 2.0mm thick

McMaster Carr # 98055A325 DIN black steel pack of 10 for $6.17

1mm thick, ID 30mm, OD 42mm Pretty darn close to me!

Or Stainless Steel 98089408 $7.36 PK 10

So...you gonna be the new distributor for these?!
T.C.

[trbig]

So... you're saying you aren't going to get a chunk of stainless steel and turn them on your lathe for us all??

That size looks pretty close to me also. The outside diameter just has to be wide enough to catch that bearing that the #1 gear is rolling on and the gear at the same time. I am going down to Texas to help viaquest (James) tear his down tomorrow. If we can find a local place to get one around Arlington Texas, I will pick a few up and try it. Stainless sounds like it would be strongest to me just in case it did have to hold anything... unless black steel meant that it was hardened??

Anyone else see any reason why this wouldn't work like it does for 2nd gear when you move the washer?


Tod

[TopCatGr58]

The washer is in an oil bath, the black steel is DIN rated, the SS ones are NOT hardness rated, and I believe it was XSCHop, or someone discussing the pros/cons and that SS bolts are not as strong as the regular ones! So I think the black ones would be fine!
T.C.

[trbig]

I just ordered 10 of these shims/ washers from McMaster-Carr. Anyone else interested in trying this also? I'll have 4 more sets (Ordered 10 washers... each tranny would neeed 2)It should move 1st gear 1mm closer to the dogs. I'll let you know when I get them in. Kinda pricey at @ a buck a washer, but if it keeps me from tearing down a tranny for 1st gear problems, TEN bucks a washer isn't too much.


Tod

[trbig]

The shims came in today from Mcmaster Carr and these seem to be just what the doctor ordered to get 1st gear closer to the dogs by 1mm. I know this doesn't sound like much, but the stock gears only have maybe 2mm of contact anyway. As you can see from this pic of the 2nd/5th gear dogs, just 1mm is quite a bit of extra steel to be pulling against when it counts...



I didn't get it EXACTLY on the edge of the dogs, but you get the idea...

Just thought I'd share the idea with you.


Tod

[mro]

to get 1st gear closer to the dogs by

Think I'll wait to see how it shifts out of first....first


mro