5th Gear Problem?

[GtrMn]

Never had this happen before. Recently when I give it a bunch of throttle in 5th gear it's like it misses a gear tooth or something....a jolt then grab feeling. Very fast Clunk sound. Anyone had this happen? Is 5th gear getting ready to blow out?

[trbig]

Do a search for "2nd gear fix". This happens to be this type of bike's Achilles heel. I have never heard of it happening to the 5th gear first.. but what you describe sounds exactly like the same thing. The dogs and gears don't mesh together very far and start rounding off after a while. The XS tends to have it happen to 2nd gear first, and the XJ seems to have it happen to 1st.

There's a pic of the gears here...

http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=14204


Tod

[GtrMn]

Yeap..never had a problem with 2nd gear and this is my 2nd LG. Tried seaching for "5th gear" couldn't find anything about it. Doesn't sound good though...haha

[GtrMn]

Anyone know what parts I may need? Looks like Yamaha still makes 'em. Thanks in advance.

[trbig]

To the left of this box is a tab called "Tech Tips". Click on that, then repairs. Scan down to the transmission area and you can find out everything you need to know. Basically, you'll need a roto-zip or similar tool, and maybe an oil pan gasket if you tear it? You can make those if you need to from a roll of gasket material at all auto parts stores. So it can be done cheaply, but it will take some time.

You can also buy the gears, and they will be beveled correctly from the factory, but they are pretty expensive. It's fairly easy to grind your existing ones, and you will have them in your hand already anyway even if you buy new.. so might as well just fix what you have. To install the new ones, you have to do most of the same labor anyway.

Tod

[GtrMn]

Thanks Tod...Appreciate your input. I think I would prefer to do the Yamaha new gear deal...seems they may have fixed some of the problems. Replaced the sensor coils with the new Yamaha parts when i got the bike and they worked great. One other thing...may be an illusion (sp) the bike doesn't seem to have as much upshift distance into 5th gear as the others. Does that make any sense?

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Gtrmn,
BTW, is that for GatorMan, or GuitarMan?

The plot thickens! Folks have described problems in NOT being able to shift into 5th, and it was due to a broken/missing pin in the end of the shift drum. If it was bent, then when you shift into gear, the drum may not be rotating all the way thru to the proper shift position, which would then in turn not slide the shift fork and gear all the way into engagement, so that it could possibly act like you describe!

There is a great pictorial(in repairs IIRC) by Ken Talbot for the shift lever spring, and you can see the shift pawl and shift drum. There is a thin plate that keeps these pins in position, but if a person hit a bad bump while shifting into 5th, they could accidentally put too much pressure on the shift drum/pin and pull it out of position/bend!

You'll need to get a replacement end plate, once bent, they don't retain their shape even if you bend it back! This and a proper alignment of the shift pawl may be all that is needed, may not need to tear into the bottom of the tranny! I would check this out first, IMHO!

BTW, there are newer tips that are NOT linked from the left column, so scrolling down from the main forum page is how you can find them!
T.C.

[GtrMn]

Haha...It's GuitarMan

Hmmm I have seen the shift drum pics..and that does make sense. I'll check that first. Thanks T.C.! Really would rather not do the bike flip thing...haha

[trbig]

Really would rather not do the bike flip thing

I'm a (Not too) Proud member of the "Over The Handlebars Club". The scars really impress the chicks! lol.. OK.. so I've been with the same chick for 20+ years.. but man was she impressed! *Rolling eyes.. *Yawn.

I don't think you have to worry about a tranny lock-down. I'm not familiar with what TC was talking about, but what generally happens with these gears, is they just get rounded more and more until they will do that popping and skipping even at idle in the damaged gear. You could probably ride a long time by just riding carefully in 5th.. downshifting to 4th to pass. But.. as you say.. it's not right and i would want to fix it also. I'm just too cheap to buy new!

Tod

[GtrMn]

"Over the handlebars club" huh...haha. Don't really want to be a member...but gotta do what you've gotta do. The real pisser though is the bike is running perfect now...just replaced the plugs with iridium plugs from Denso....the carbs are synced perfect...nice! Last tank even got 43 MPG....combined riding. Cool deal. Actually, that little extra power may be what caused the 5th gear thing...damn. haha

[GtrMn]

Hey T.C. Do you know the part numbers for the pin and end plate by chance...I have the Yamaha parts sheet and schematic. Looks like there's 7 dowel pins total and4 different plates..just not sure which ones they are. Thanks!

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Gtrmn,

I'm pretty sure they are:
4) Plate side 1, 2H7-18561-00-00
2)Dowel Pin (4-17.8mm) 93604-18058-00

However, have you taken it apart yet to check to see IF that's what's happened?? Would hate for you to spend $$ on something you don't need to.

Just as another thought, while you're in there, the shift lever return spring can fail, especially after the decades of use, and they are still available fairly cheaply as well, wouldn't be a bad thing to replace it while you're there.

Symptoms of a bad spring are being able to shift up, but trouble downshifting due to the spring NOT returning the lever back up to it's original position which resets the shift pawl like a ratchet wrench ready to grab the next dowel pin, so you have to gently pull up on the lever enough to reset it before shifting down again.

Some folks will bang or bounce on the lever which is not good for it but can get it to bounce up enough to reset!
T.C.

[GtrMn]

Thanks T.C. Haven't gone in there yet...was gonna wait till changing the oil...about 150 miles. Ill check the spring too...although haven't had a problem with down shifting....it is a bit tough up shifting though. By what you've said, I'm still guessing I bent something. Oh yeah, one more thing. When the bikes not running...it'll shift pretty easily up into 3rd...then I have to move the rear wheel a bit to get it into 4th and 5th....but it doesn't "feel" like it's engaging completely...make any sense? Thanks again for your expertise!

[GtrMn]

Well changed the oil today..and in the process checked out the parts on the shift drum etc...damn..looked like brand new...nothing bent...alignment marks where dead on...and to my surprise absolutely no oil sludge at all. Eeeek may be 5th gear!

[TopCatGr58]

Resurrecting thread for further discussion

Hey Gtrmn,

I saw your reply to MadMax-im's thread, and vaguely remembered your posts, so went searching to find it and bring it forward.

We recently had a new member join who actually RACED modded XS11's in grand prix style, and he mentioned something about how they would occasionally grenade the 5th gear during the races!? I don't know the whole story or what happens to 5th, but perhaps he'll see this and comment on it.

I'll find him and drop him a PM to check this thread out also.
T.C.