carbs NOT leaking, still running rough

[TopCatGr58]

Originally posted by pggg
If so, definitely a case where inline filters are needed - at least until the fuel hoses, petcocks and tank are fixed.

I just wanted to make sure EVERYBODY saw this quote from PGGG!

He is actually SUGGESTING the use of inline fuel filters!

What's that saying about "old dogs"?
T.C.

PS, Dawg, Thanks for updating your profile. Now "we" would like to suggest that you take a little time to review the many helpful Tech Tips scrolling down from the Main Forum Page, under Maintenance, Repairs, Mods, Misc. starting with Carbs/Fuel!

[pggg]

Yep, TC got a good left jab in there...

But hey, I'll admit the inline filter 'BAND-AID FIX' is better than nothin'...

[blackdawg]

carb problems still, or the petcocks,octupuss

Still trying to figure out the problem on the XS 1980 1100 special .Petcock are pouring out fuel on the on and reserve position with the bike off,should this be happening.The float level appears to be at 25-26 mm ,should i take this down to 22-23 mm..I"m not sure how the octupuss comes into play,but i want to eliminate one thing at a time.The fuel just pours out the carbs when the bike is off so float or petcocks or both.Thanks in advance guys.

blackdawg

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Dawg,

The petcocks sound like they are working fine cause they are supposed to flow when ON or Reserve, or Prime. They only don't flow when put to OFF! The Octy is the vacuum controlled valve that is supposed to stop the flow to the carbs when the engine is OFF, no vacuum to open the valve. However, the hose routing allows fuel to flow to the carbs when in the PRIME position without the engine running, so that you can fill the bowls first!

On the 80SG the floats should be at ~23mm. But you didn't say whether the carbs were still leaking while set at 25mm? If they are/were, then setting to 23 won't help the leaking!

The float needles have rubber tips that age, harden, get rings worn in the tips, etc., and won't seal properly. NEED TO GET NEW ONES.

Also, the valve seat has a rubber O-ring around the base, that also hardens, shrinks, and eventually leaks as well, NEED TO GET NEW ONES!

ALAS, all of this is in the carb tech tips, have you had a chance to read thru them? We're not trying to sound like we're being mean or smarta$$ed, just want folks to learn how to help themselves with just a little effort and research!
T.C.

[blackdawg]

carb still leaking

They still are leaking at the 25 mm thats measuring from base where the gasket sits on.The gasket is attached to the bowl side.Number four float is a little sticky so i"m going to sand the pin a bit.This will allow the float to move smoothly.I have read the thread on carbs,and printed it out and followed it to the letter.IF anyone has picture of which jet to which location would be helpfull.I might have mixed up two i don"t think so ,but would like to verify that.The needle with the o-ring i did not come across that.I took out three jets and a needle with a spring.The screws i drilled out were on the top of the carb where the diapram is they were all stripped.Those damm phillips screws i changed them to robertson as i could get any allen head bolts.And please tom cat don"t blend all my threads together, as new people don"t see the latest question i ask.It gets buried to the bottom.

THANKS IN ADVANCE GUYS

BLACKDAWG

[pggg]

The jets only fit their own holes, what numbers are stamped on your jets and the 4 emulsion tubes? Good idea to smooth that float pin movement. The float valves are the problem as far as leaking fuel goes. Bad seal in there it seems, new valves and seats will likely get that bike running

[TopCatGr58]

Re: carb still leaking

Originally posted by blackdawg
They still are leaking .I have read the thread on carbs,and printed it out and followed it to the letter.IF anyone has picture of which jet to which location would be helpfull. The needle with the o-ring i did not come across that.I took out three jets and a needle with a spring.

And please tom cat errr.. it's Topcat don't blend all my threads together, as new people don't see the latest question i ask. It gets buried to the bottom.

THANKS IN ADVANCE GUYS

BLACKDAWG

Trying to restrain my temper....."he's a newbie, remember"

Below is a direct link to the
Carbs tech tips in the Maintenance section.....17 of them! Not just "A" Thread.

Amongst them is the FAQ, and THIS PHOTO

that is shown describing the various jets, emulsion tubes, the 2 different styles of float needles...plain metal(earlier models) and rubber/viton tipped(Your type)...NOT O-ring;
and the 2 styles of float valve SEATS...
one WITH AN O-RING(Your Type) that is held in place with a bracket and phillips screw,
and one with a flat washer that screws into the carb body.

There are also 7 tips in the Repairs, Carbs tech tips section.

There are 6 tips in the Mods, Carbs section.

And as for merging your requests, they will continue to be merged into the same thread with the same problem!!

Once YOU or anybody posts a message, either a NEW THREAD or a reply to an existing thread....that thread is bumped up to the TOP of the thread list! HOWEVER, as other threads are replied to, then they move to the TOP of the list, pushing yours downward. SO it doesn't have any affect in it's position IF you create a NEW THREAD, because it will still be scrolled down as other posts and threads are replied and posted.

Once you post a reply to your EXISTING thread, it is then marked as a NEW post and sent to the TOP, and folks viewing the FORUM will see the flashing icons that show that a NEW post/reply/request has been posted, and so they will know to then read it!

HOWEVER, if no one responds or replies to your request, and it gets scrolled to the bottom of the page or even OFF the first page, YOU CAN go to it, and then post a quick reminder that will BUMP the thread back to the FRONT PAGE/TOP to possibly get folks attention. There is a counter next to the thread that shows how many people have read/looked at your thread, so you can make a note of how many have looked at it when you post your request, and then you can check to see how many MORE people come back and re-read the NEW POST.

Not every requests gets replies, or immediate feedback. Not everyone knows ALL of the answers,(I certainly don't! ). And MANY of the questions posted have already been answered or covered by info already in the TECH TIPS, as well as in previous threads in the Tech Forum which are easily accessed with searches, so folks sometimes don't see the need to answer.

THIS IS HOW THIS FORUM WORKS!

We want to help folks as best we can, but we occassionally get a little tired of spoonfeeding info to newbies that pop on and start posting requests for info/techniques that have been explained, covered, etc. in the tech tips and such....but the newbies don't take the time to review the material before jumping in.

Hope you can see our frustration sometimes!
T.C.

[blackdawg]

carbs leaking

Okay there bud you made your point.I"M looking for specific answers that i have not found in the threads,trust me i have searched everything as i like to find the answers myself.How should i take the tube out that has the screw and the little plate.I haven"t had that one out,so the o-ring could be the trouble.Top right one in your picture.And as luck has it, NOT .Two of the screws in two separate carbs are seized and will need to be drilled out.And the one number float is sticky.I will sand the pin a little smoother.Should i go to the trouble of resetting the float height from 25 mm to 23 mm.

[brownbear1000]

carbs

the boots are ok I can put my hand over them and turn the Eng. over and my hand will stick there on the boots I have to polle it off the boots .cood the flots still be set to low.getting gas but not enuff ? may be. I also put gas filters in the lines befor the T,s
and after the filters I put a T and then two lines to the tank res & prim of the valve on the yank one for 1&2 carb to left side of tank and 3&4 to right side of the tankand i am useing clear gas line so I can see the gaswhoud drilling the ports out help I f so what size drills shood I use and on witch one?






HELP

Neal stockheimer

414 744-6452 AFTRE 4;30 cent time

Milwaukee wisconsin

[Ken Talbot]

Re: carbs leaking

Originally posted by blackdawg


How should i take the tube out that has the screw and the little plate.....

I haven"t had that one out,so the o-ring could be the trouble.....

Should i go to the trouble of resetting the float height from 25 mm to 23 mm.....

When you remove the screw and washer from one end of the emulsion tube (d in the photo), you can then drive it out gently the other way. Use a piece of wooden dowel and start with a small hammer. The wood will help to prevent mushrooming the soft brass tube and ruining it.

The emulsion tube and the float valve with the o-ring around it (upper right corner in the photo) are two completely different pieces. They really have nothing to do with each other. However, you make a valid point that if one piece has never been out and cleaned, there is a good chance the other hasn't been either so it could be in any condiiton.

For now, I would advise sticking with 25mm for your floats. Experience says that you're going to be stripping the carbs down "more than once" just to get everything truly clean. There's no sense adding in another variable until everything is actually clean. Then, you can start tweaking the float levels in combination with a number of other slight adjustments.

Do you ever get out this way? Stop by some day and I'll show you a couple of XSs in fine tune.

[prometheus578]

"and furthermore..."

And as for merging your requests, they will continue to be merged into the same thread with the same problem!!

With the threads merged, it's easier to follow the history, or the progress that's being made. (I currently trying to help someone, but his posts aren't really merged, and they're scattered over three pages, making my job harder. (Oh, my precious time!)
A related posting issue:
Oft times, someone posts a question but receives only one or two answers. This doesn't mean that we don't like you.(but it could)
What this really means is that the usual cadre of Gurus and general Know-It-Alls have read the question, seen that someone has already supplied the proper answer, and decided to move on without comment.

[prometheus578]

"No need to drill anything."

The bike is hard to start and will only run with the choke on...
Pilot circuit is plugged.
You get to pull the carbs yet again. This will be the last time.
Remove the float bowl. Remove the screw covering the pilot jet and remove the jet. (you can leave the main jet in if you're so inclined)
Remove the pilot screw and spring. The pilot screw should have a sharp point. If it doesn't, look down the hole and see if you can see light from the carb throat. If you can't, then you've broken off the tip of the screw in the idle mixture oriface, and may God have mercy on your soul.
Look at the airbox end of the carb. There are three air jets. One for the enrichener circuit(choke), one for the main jet and one for the pilot jet. Squirt spray carb cleaner into one of the bottom two(I can't recall which), until spray comes out of the pilot jet's tower.(safety glasses are nice unless you enjoy crying like a school girl)
Ok, if spray comes out the pilot jet tower, now put your finger over it's opening and spray again.(yes, I'm aware there is a passage from the pilot jet tower to the main jet tower, but this will still work) Spray should now be seen in the hole that you took the pilot jet and spring from. And if the tip of the screw isn't busted in the oriface, cleaner should be dripping from that, too.
Reassemble the carbs and make your adjustments.
That is all there is to cleaning the pilot/idle circuit.
Your bike should now start, idle, and run.
Bench synchronize the carbs before putting them back on.
Still have problems... write again.

[John]

What he said....plus

There are three small orifices on top of the throat of the carbs where the top of the buttyfly rests. They are also in the pilot circuit. You need to be sure that they are free of obstruction also.

[blackdawg]

carbs a leaking

I just want to clarify some points before i move ahead.IN the picture of the jets and floats,very helpfull thanks.I have had a,b,c, and the float pin out.I will check the float pin to see if the tip is good.The one with the o-ring is held by the bracket and screw.I"M not sure if ken said to tap it out from the other side or if it was that brass tube the tube in the middle photo.That long brass tube i don"t know where it is located or if this bike has one.The inline filters i will be putting in sounds like it will save future headaches.

blackdawg

[John]

The long brass tube in the pic is the nozzle (d), or emulsion tube. The item in the top right corner is the float seat (e) for an 80-81 carb. The correct needle for this seat is the rubber tipped one just below it. The O ring on the seat can leak, causing a flooding condition. This seat is held in with the small bracket and screw, and it must be pulled from the carb body. You cannot push it out from the other side. To prevent distorting the seat, you can insert a snug fitting drill bit shank into the seat, and then grab the seat with a pliers, and not distort it. The nozzle must be pushed up from the bowl area, to the top of the carbs wherethe diaphrams sit. Use a thin wooden or plastic rod to push it out so you won't damage the threads that the main jet (b) threads into. Mind the small alignment slot on the nozzle that mates with the small peg in the carb body.