Need sidecar help

[Doo-Daa]

A couple of months ago I came accross a XS750 with a car as part of the deal. A buddy of mine got the 750, I got the car.

It's a California Side Car - Friendship I. I bought into the updated lower mounts, but since I have about 50 VW torsion springs, I'm holding off on the suspension upgrades.

Set it up over the last weekend as per the Manufactures Specs.

3/4" toe in
1/8" left lean (out)
Cars wheel is vertical
Frame is level side to side
frame tilts to the front ~1"
But due to bracketry, I've got about 17" tail (car whl Cl to Bike wheel Cl)
As a trial, set in 120# of sand bags.

Pulls a little to the right at 40mph, but that is probally toe in.

My shoulders and arms are killing me! I've driven 1940s International hay trucks the were easier to turn.

I'm asking for any other "pilots" out there to share thier set-ups.

I've been to a couple of other sites (cyclesidecar, sct, etc), they are all very iinformatative, but not XS Specific.

Any info and help would be appreciated. Need to make this thing work.

Doo-Daa

[TomB]

Hey Doo Daa

I've been sidecaring for 15 years and built my rig.

You don't need to have XS specific info, just read what the rig is telling you correctly.

Have you ever had a pushbike (bicycle) and walked with it holding the seat and steered it by angling it side to side? if not try it.

Now imagine if you put a huge drag on one side, the bicycle would be pulled round by the drag, SO you lean the bike away from the drag, thats the lean-out.

Getting it yet???

The leanout figure of 1/8" is incredibly low, I'd go for 3/4" as a start point and adjust from there. over time and much adjusting I found the toe-in mostly stops the sidecar scrubbing tires, the lean out has made the most difference.

No wonder your arms are struggling
Also you might want to try and reduce the trail of the forks to ease the amount of pressure you have to exert on the bars to turn, there are several ways mentioned on this forum from using Special sliders with Standard trees to simply lowering your stanchions through the trees, which also helps lower the whole rig, also leading link forks $$$$$


In the end it doesn't matter what the manufacturer's figures are, its what the rig handles like.


I'm not trying to tell you how yours should be set up, only you will find that out and you'll probably find different results to mine, sidecar outfits seem to be all different.

Go and have a twiddle, you'll find you'll get more of a feel of what works if you find out what doesn't


Oh nearly forgot the golden rule: on the bike, V hard back springs and soft front.

[rover]

When you accelerate, the rig will pull to the right, and to the left on decelerating. This can't be stopped, but reducing fork trail will help some. Keep leaning out the bike (away from the car) until it goes straight ahead without pulling much at highway speed. Also make sure the car wheel (axle) is around four inches ahead of the rear bike wheel (axle). I run mine with just a touch of toe in, and I do not get any front wheel wobble. It takes a lot of trial and error to get it the way you want it. Everything you do will be a compromise. Changing the load in the car will affect handling. Keep trying until you think you can live with it. Some put a special upper tree on the standard front end to reduce trail. My car is wide, and I can live with it, also I can ride it empty. I have air shocks on the rear of the bike, and when the wife and baby ride with me, I bleed a bit of air out of the shocks to get more lean out to keep from pulling hard to the right. Remember, EVERYTHING about hanging a few hundred pounds to the right of the bike is going to make things radically different.

[rockjok]

I rode my Special with two different sidecars for a couple of years with the stock steering. It was always tiring in twisties or, even worse, severe crosswinds.

I bought a set of triple trees off ebay and had the steerite mod done to them by Side Effects of Canada. Made a world of difference in steering ease - almost as good as the leading link setup on my beemer. There is a lot more tendency to shimmy so another project this summer is a steering damper.

Another thing about alignment: Tho' not all setups may be like mine I've found that having ~200 lbs of weight on the bike seat and a typical balast load in the hack when aligning gives me a very close starting point. Little tweaking thereafter.

WARNING: The front frame members of the XS are relatively weak in front of the engine. I recommend using the two-hole fairing mount below the triple tree to mount a plate for your upper forward mount. Don't use a "universal" clamp attached to one side of the frame members. As I learned the hard way, it's difficult to steer when the frame breaks and your engine hits the ground.

Rob

[TomB]

it's difficult to steer when the frame breaks and your engine hits the ground.

Hahahaha LOL

Yep!! forgot to mention that, I broke both downtubes on a Honda CB550/4, I was luckier coz my engine didn't hit the deck, I think the Russian military sidecar held it all together

[fredintoon]

Too much lead!

Doo-Daa posts:-
"But due to bracketry, I've got about 17" tail (car whl Cl to Bike wheel Cl)
As a trial, set in 120# of sand bags."
Hi Doo-Daa,
I think you mean "trail" and it's usually termed "lead" but anyway that's about twice what most folks set their rigs at.
I'd suggest working the bracketry over to move the chair back to no more than 12" lead (that's where mine is and that's a tad too much but it's a chore to change it) But 17" is way too much, so bite the bullet, cut'n'weld & move it back to between 8" & 10". While you are rebuilding the mounting brackets, what is your track width? A wider track (mine is 54") gives a more stable rig.
Those other guys are right, set every mount you can across both sides of the frame. I eased the heavy steering on my Special by installing 'trees off a Standard.
If your XS11 is a Standard, fit the fork legs off a Special to get the same reduction in front wheel trail. If you are good for a $500+ spend, get the Steerite conversion; if you can spring for $1,500+ get a used Earles fork. Me, I'm cheap; good that Yamaha parts swap like Lego.
Fred Hill, S'toon.