Transmission question

[jwjohnson1953]

How does the transmission gear problem manifest itself? Does the transmission completely pop out of gear, or is it more of a skip?
The reason I ask is I have recently developed a skip (sometimes only once, sometimes several in a row) when accelerating strong, in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. At first I thought the drive line yolk had cracked and was letting the drive line splines cam over. I have checked most items of the drive train, put in my spare engine (does the same), put on one of my spare final drives (does the same). This week I plan to completely replace the drive line and final drive with my coveted low mileage spares.
The funny thing that happens (because I really enjoy spinning the rear up in turns) I get the skip to occur when the tire isn't really making traction.
Thanks in advance,
JW

[Pat Kelly]

They can do different things from pop-out of gear completely to skipping.
Mine started skipping in 2nd gear with lots of throttle and over 6,000 RPM. It gradually got worse until "the Fix".
Now the only problem I have is getting it in to neutural when idleing and this is only about half the time.

[Snow]

Skipping in 3 gears? Please define exactly what you mean by skipping - do the rpms just climb and the bike doesn't accelerate more until the rpms come back down? Does it only happen in those first 3? If you put it into high gear and go WOT about 5 or 6 grand, does it do the same thing?

[jwjohnson1953]

Thanks Pat.
Hello Snow, By skipping I mean it simply breaks loose for a moment and catches almost immediately, it happes so fast there is no jump in tach reading (of course I don't watch the tach much), sometimes it will repeat the skip and sometimes it happens only once. Yesterday when I came in from work it skipped at a low rpm for the first time, probably around 2500, usually it is above 4000. Of course if I drive sedately or as a more mature person should, it doesn't happen, but I need to find out what's wrong and fix it. I am not sure if there is any other pops or sound happening when this occurs, but it seems as if there is a kind of clunk sound (which could be the drive train coming under load again). It feels as though the frame is really flexing as the rear comes back to traction which is why I originally thought my problem was in the rear.
As I was reading some of the posts I started thinking that maybe someone might have had the same problem, and hence my inquiry.
I know long distance troubleshooting and "what does this sound mean" are difficult to say the least, but I do thank all for their input.
JW

[mikeb]

That almost sounds like an electrical problem. You say the rpm doesn't climb so you might me loosing spark on 2 or all cylinders for a fraction of a second. You mentioned a motor swap but I'm guessing you used the same TCI and coils. Could be a loose wire on the coil or coils going bad or TCI not firing right. Just a guess on my part.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey JW,

At first it did sound like the Tranny, but doing it in 3rd, with both engines is highly unlikely! 3rd gear's dogs/slots WERE undercut by Yamaha and they are less used vs. 1st and 2nd, and so get less wear, and I can't recall but maybe only 1 other person stating that they lost 3rd gear.

The sensation when it pops out is usually quick, can repeat, and usually under stronger load than cruising. But under those conditions you can have more rotation of the timing plate as well, and the pickup coils flexing can also give quick intermittent bursts, as well as loose solder joints on the TCI.

Before tearing into the tranny, you might want to do some trouble shooting on the TCI, pickup coil wires, and such first. Then if they check out okay, then jump into the tranny.

Swapping out the engines and final drives like you have done, the tranny won't be much of a problem. If you want to keep riding, you can do the repair on the engine/tranny you already have out, and then swap it back in!

Have you seen the tech tips FROM THE MAIN FORUM PAGE, not just the links in the left yellow column, there are several that are NOT linked from the left, should find them useful, especially the Repairs, Tranny section!
T.C.

[Snow]

Originally posted by TopCatGr58
and I can't recall but maybe only 1 other person stating that they lost 3rd gear.

The engine I borrowed from my bro' had a bad 3rd gear

[John]

The shift drum and forks can also wear, and not fully engage the gears in the trans.

[The Lorax]

you will have to count me in as one who lost third gear. way back when I first got mine up and running, 2nd did nothing, 1st was ok, 3rd would skip under hard acceleration. then the #2 shift fork broke and seized up the trans. anyway, back to the topic. when I tore my engine / trans down, evry set of dogs was rather worn and rounded off. I dremeled only one set...I think it was the set that has something like dogs on both mating parts and no slots. I know I am not explaining myself well at all but suffice to say, only 1 set of my gears were salvagable, had to replace all the others. anyway, mine skipped in third. have a nice day and ride safe .

[ccogswel]

My 79 xs11 had a skipping 2nd gear. But on my brothers 81 xs11 the 3rd gear skipped.

I don't know if this will help but you said you replaced the engine and the final drive but what about the middle drive. Just a thought. Good luck!

[jwjohnson1953]

I want to thank everyone for helping. I pulled the gears apart in the engine I just removed. No question it is the transmission now. But considering it is well over 120,000, I can't help but be impressed with how well everything looks. My plans now are to pull the transmission out of the original Black (79,000 miles cam chain broke) engine also, check over everytning and set the trans. in this spare engine I have in the bike now.

Anyone have a good source for piston rings and overhaul gasket sets? I might be better off just rebuilding the original engine first.

Again, I want to thank everyone.
JW

[TopCatGr58]

Top End Rebuilding woes!

Hey JW,

Don't know if you've tried to find oversize pistons, but OEM oversizes are NOT available from Yamaha anymore. You can still get piston rings. One member put in the 1st OS rings back in with the OEM sized pistons, has been working well so far. YMMV

But, if your cylinders and compression readings are that low, you'll probably need a bore and not just a hone. The only solution is to get a big bore kit, they come in 2 flavors, 1179 and 1196cc. There's a place in Fla. that sells them at a decent price, there is a link in the LINKS section IIRC!

Recent thread on "complete gasket set", a search will yield info on places like PnM, vs. Ebay, and differing opinions about who makes these sets, and their quality!
T.C.

[Snow]

I'm still waiting on my new kit almost 2 months later from them...

[jwjohnson1953]

Thanks TC,
The Black engine (original) had beautiful cylinders, no top ring groove, sharp chrome barrels with no adverse dimensional distortion, so no need for oversize. I replaced it with the second engine (the one I pulled last week for the trans skip) about 12-13 years ago. I have had the head work done. However a couple of years ago, the county displaced all of the hangar owners and I had to move all my stuff (carefully avoiding the word "junk") to the house. Somewhere along the way of the forced march, I've lost the overhaul gasket set and the piston rings. and several other things.

Doesn't hurt to ask, you just never know where someone finds what.

JW

BTW, just finished putting in the Eastern Beaver headlight wiring and solid state relays kit. 20 minute install and about and extra hour to figure out the wires I needed to jumper where the reserve lighting unit was. Nice, no headlight dimming with the brake light and turnsignals going. A friend had put the EB kit in his Bandit. Check out the website for info. WWW.easternbeaver.com

[dale_1]

Wiseco

Ahem.... not me but we do have an XSive member who is a Wiseco dealer..... I will ask him if he wants me to let you guys know that..... He probably is trying not to promote his own business here(policy I believe) But, then look at my signature block... been that way for a long time. Not that I have lots of business from my XS buddies!