Carb Advice Please! Wits End

[XSRIK]

OK,
I introduced my self to you fine folks with carb sniveling. I've done all things suggested and even had the expert help, tutelage and free labor, of retired professional drag racer pro engine builder Phil Mass (yeah the NHRA top fuel champ from "Chicargo") who opened a machine shop in our small town a few years ago.

Carbs were soaked in solvent and meticulously cleaned
Complete rebuild kits installed including brand new nos Yamaha floats from bike bandit .
It took several attempts at purchasing float needles and seats to get ones that were perfect.
Brand new intake boots
Brand new K&N filter
the result of countless hours of fettling adjusting and cussing?

A hard starting cold natured S.O.B that will barely idle and falls on its face loads up and or stalls as soon as the clutch is released.
either to much fuel or not enough. Pop! fart! burp! stall!

Phil Mass says these carbs were so gummed up and full of crap when he soaked them for me that there is no way to get all the little ports, passages etc. cleaned to the point where these carbs can be useful.
Essentially they are shot and beyond repair.
My question is thus:
Would a set from a 1980 or newer XS benefit me? and would they work?
This is an awesome site and you guys are great but I'm about two steps away from grabbing the ruger and going out into the shed and popping about 6 rounds in this bike. At this point, the words frustration and disappointment would be understatements of the highest order!!!!!

Any and all mechanical/spiritual advice welcome!

XSRIK

[jetmechmarty]

It sounds like you answered your own question. Clean wasn't clean enough. Stay with it. You'll get them clean. I won't run right until you do.

Anyone here ever use an old crock pot? I think I've heard of doing that with carb cleaner from YAMAROBBER.

[TopCatGr58]

Re: Carb Advice Please! Wits End

Originally posted by XSRIK
OK,
I introduced my self to you fine folks with carb sniveling. I've done all things suggested and even had the expert help, tutelage and free labor, of retired professional drag racer pro engine builder Phil Mass (yeah the NHRA top fuel champ from "Chicargo") who opened a machine shop in our small town a few years ago.

Carbs were soaked in solvent and meticulously cleaned

Phil Mass says these carbs were so gummed up and full of crap when he soaked them for me that there is no way to get all the little ports, passages etc. cleaned to the point where these carbs can be useful.
Essentially they are shot and beyond repair.

My question is thus:
Would a set from a 1980 or newer XS benefit me? and would they work?

Any and all mechanical/spiritual advice welcome!

XSRIK

Hey RIK,

See the underlined sections, that's most likely the problem!!
UNLESS they were completely disassembled, including down to the butterfly shafts being removed, and the seals removed.

Carb solvent is too harsh for them, and eats them up, and you then end up with MASSIVE vacuum leaks around the shafts/butterflies, so NO amount of tuning will work!

Depending on how much $$ you want to spend, you could get ANY bank of XS11 carbs, 78-81 will work, just have different plumbing and venting, and less fine tuning with the later years80-81.

Did you remove the tops, pull the vacuum slides out and inspect them for fine pinholes? Did you do the test prior to taking them out, pushing them up and holding your finger/thumb over the arched vent on top of inlet bell and see if the slides held, or only very slowly dropped down, vs. dropping very quickly=holes/leaks?

You can get replacement butterfly shaft seals, but you may be jaded towards this bank of carbs, and a different set might be what you need. Might be better to find some same style as you have so you can use your kits from your old carbs!
T.C.

[midnight1980]

Essentially they are shot and beyond repair.

the pins that hold the float in place can bind..
i rebuilt my carbs 3 times to get them correct the float levels are very tricky
make sure the floats are free and not binding at all.
take the carbs off again take the float bowls off and push the floats up and down with your finger there should be no sticking or burr too the up and down movements.

[Snow]

As stated above, all rubber that might have been left in (butterfly rod o-rings, etc) must now be replaced due to soaking. If you are truly at your wit's end and have spare money, I'd try sending them to the motorcyclecarbs.com guys if they are still operating and let them know that they have been 'dipped'.

[XSRIK]

Everything was removed from carbs before dipping and sonic cleaning.
diaphragms were checked and were in surpisingly good shape
floats and pins were replaced with new oem parts and do not appear or act like they are sticking. good clean gasoline all new carb parts.........
If I CAN get it to idle and rev decently and shut it off for a few minutes and it cools it seems as though the process has to be started all over again. I'm sure I'm missing something here but I'll be damned if I can figure out what it is or perhaps these carbs are as I was told "just worn out"????
confused
XSRIK

[red bandit]

I seriously dought they are worn out. The choke and idle circuit IS DIRTY. Disassemble carbs,Use spray carb cleaner, give a little squirt every few min. in idle/choke circuit and keep letting it sit to dissolve the crude. Do this for 2 hours. blow out w/air....Then they will be clean. Don't forget the little holes in the bowl.

[79XS11F]

If your content that the carbs are as clean as they can get and are clean enough to work porperly ...and the rubber parts are good to go ... then perhaps there is another issue.
How are the fuel petcocks and vac lines that operate the petcocks? Are the petcock screens clean. Is the fuel tank getting air through its air supply vent.
Do you have consistent spark on all plugs all the time? Is the timing right?
As has been pointed out carbs can be got but it would be a shame to buy them and not cure the issue at hand.
Rob

[79XS11F]

This is good advise because submersing often does not get cleaning fluid EVERYWHERE. air locks in the tiny ports can keep cleaner out of many areas. Spray-able cleaner gets EVERYWHERE and with some added pushing power. Do wear safety glasses when spraying as many holes have right angles in them and or dead ends. Carb cleaner in the eyes will really make you want to shot her.
Rob

Originally posted by red bandit
I seriously dought they are worn out. The choke and idle circuit IS DIRTY. Disassemble carbs,Use spray carb cleaner, give a little squirt every few min. in idle/choke circuit and keep letting it sit to dissolve the crude. Do this for 2 hours. blow out w/air....Then they will be clean. Don't forget the little holes in the bowl.

[XSRIK]

THANKS GUYS, ONCE I TAKE A BREAK FOR A DAY OR TWO I'LL TRY ALL THE SUGGESTIONS. I'M NO MASTER MECHANIC BUT I TRY TO BE VERY VERY THOROUGH IN THESE PROJECTS. I'VE EXHUMED AT LEAST 8 "BEATERS" OVER THE YEARS IN A LOT WORSE SHAPE THAN THIS XS WAS WHEN I FOUND IT. THIS IS THE FIRST "BEATER" THAT EVER CAME THIS CLOSE TO "BEATING" ME.
SERENITY NOW! SERENITY NOW! SERENITY NOW!
XSRIK

[John]

Senility now?

[XSRIK]

JOHN, TOUCHE'



XS....HUH?

[Yankman]

Carb help

I too have been having my share of carb problems. I'm down to sputtering and stumbeling at low throttel.
As for yours, I have found that the seals for the butterflys have a important roll for proper air fuel mixture. If they leak it changes it intensly. There are 8 of them, 2 for each carb, you have to remove the butterfly's and shafts to replace them. If you didn't take them compleatly apart before cleaning, the solution probably has eaten them up. Check the diaframs for holes, rips or tears. If any problem with them they won't open the main jets properly.
If you are running CV (constant velosity) carbs Float level is extreemly important also. Too low it runs too lean, too high it runs too rich.
As for jets, MY experance with aftermarket ones didn't work out. I ended up ordering original Yamaha jets.
Check your cylinder compression too. Check for vacume leaks also, a little WD40 around intake boots will change idle.
Make shure your carbs are in sink also.
Hope this helps.