Clutch from bad to worse

[Ljay40]

Any suggestions that I have not tried,
Clutch used to slip in second gear and third gear when I opened
her up,So figured new fibers and a extra steel should stiffen things up.
Soak out new plates(Vesrah) for like over 8 hours,remove old clutch plates dont look worse than the ones Im putting in
Read tech tips on Adding Steel plate everything falls together nice no problems Used digital calipers on the springs,they all semed to be with in spec or over so did not replace them,
Also was wondering how important "sanding the steels" are
as I had missed that step, anyhow put on new clutch cable
no bends bad kinks what have you not.
Go to handle bar adjustment screw in all the slack, loosen off lock nut at clutch plate adjuster screw in till I feel resistance, back out quarter Turn adjust handlebar slack screw so I have clutch playabout 1/8 inch slop in the gap.Put on center stand start it up
Everything feels good, got good clutch leverage pull in clutch its goes down into 1st nicely hard to get back up to neutral, so roll the bike a bit and it goes back
Back tire hardly spins when bike is on center stand when in gear
take out on road shifts real nice thru all gears but at about 5 to 6 grand in 4 and 5 gear major slippage going on, so pull over back out clutch screw to give more free play try again same thing
I have adjusted over and over again all day yesterday to find a sweet spot in there still no luck
Any idea opinions welcome,could it be the extra steel messing me up With the extra steel do I need super strong springs Or that I did not sand the steels period.

[Ljay40]

Oh Yeah forgot to mention fresh Oil change as well with
20/50 Castrol GTX

[skids]

You said "so pull over back out clutch screw to give more free play try again same thing
I have adjusted over and over again all day yesterday to find a sweet spot in there still no luck." I am thinking that you did all of this adjusting for the cable length on the handlegars? This is not the way to adjust the clutch. It is a way for taking slop out of the clutch cable only (or add a little). The clutch adjustment is under the engine plate. Yours is likely screwed clockwise too much. Read up on making proper adjustment.

[Ljay40]

Sorry not clear enuff I refer to the "clutch screw" as the phillips head with 12mm nut around it every adjustment has been made with a 12 mm wrench and screw driver (in my pocket) down at the clutch plates while cable adjuster has been screwd in to allow full slack of cable then loosen 12mm lock nut screw in phillips till it rests tight against the clutch back out 1/8 /1/4 1/2 1 turns all the way 2 full turns out then taking up cable adjustment to give it lever pull Dont work still slips
Order new springs and another set of plates(got the first set off of Ebay that were NOS and have been told that Vesrah will slip even tho there new) Dont know what kind partsnmore are sellling
today so going in there to try again this time I'm going to sand the steels although Im thinking thats not my problem.but something I need to aleviate
It has gone from not to bad to damnnit I made it worse
thanks for your input

[79XS11F]

When your doing the adjustment under the cover there should be no resistance before backing out 1/4 turn. With no tension on the cable back that adjuster screw off completely and then turn it in until it "just" lightly touches the inner clutch parts. Then do the 1/4 turn out and lock it in place. Then adjust the cable slack. Try that if in the past there has been resistance with the adjuster screw.

[Ljay40]

just" lightly touches the inner clutch parts. Then do the 1/4 turn out and lock it in place. Then adjust the cable slack

right thats what I mean when I say resitance,from that lightly touch point i have tried a lil as 1/8 all the way up to 2 full turns then taken up cable slack at handlebars, still slips
Im totally stumped on this I have been adjusting replacing yamaha clutches for like over 25 to 30 years now all the way back to my first enduro 60 only thing is that I added that steel plate
Thats got to be the weakest link
thanks for input

[79XS11F]

Well perhaps the springs are "tired" even if the length is correct. Is the clutch lever easy to operate?
Rob

[TopCatGr58]

Hey LJay,

The steels can have a glaze on them, so sanding them can help break the glaze. The PNM plates I believe are Vesrah, just generic but they worked well with my machine with the extra steel.

Did you inspect the tangs on the steels and the basket to ensure that there weren't any burrs, or areas where the steels make contact with the basket, possibly wearing some little grooves into the edges which can act to catch the steels and not let them press together as they should. Your springs were in spec. I had pulled mine out only after 5 years, and they were already sprung, under spec!

You're using a good Dino oil, so that should not be a contributing factor. Sorry you have to go back into it!
T.C.

[Ljay40]

Is the clutch lever easy to operate?

I would say not really when I have it adjusted 1/4 turn from gentle touch on plates and about 1/8" to 1/4" slack in between
clutch lever adjuster Its a pretty stiff pull If I slack out the cable to like say 1/2" to 3/4" its realtively easy to pull but feeling like its not totaly engaging.

Oh yes is this a MYTH OR FACT or Personal Preference I know
this is getting off track but curiuos as to what others beleive
in


I was always told that the best place for a clutch to grab when your starting in gear is about to let out 1/3 of its travel
then the bike will start to roll Is this correct, Or should it be as soon as you start to let it out the bike rolls or shoulds it be at the end of the clutch travel. I know all this is relevant on how its set up at the clutch plate. Was also told to put it on center stand and
put in gear when running and when you pull clutch in the rear tire should be able to stop with your toe.
Any sense to all this

[Ljay40]

T.C.
Wrote
"Did you inspect the tangs on the steels and the basket to ensure that there weren't any burrs, or areas where the steels make contact with the basket, Your springs were in spec. I had pulled mine out only after 5 years, and they were already sprung, under spec!"

Hi TC
I guess your right I did not spend a whole lot of time checking for edges and burrs, me bad I had bought a complete clutch pack from ebay I know ME BAD ebay shmebay!! just incase I busted up the star plate and I needed the extra steel as well, my origianl springs were shot so I used the ones that I had measured from the other clutch pack,
there were all in spec I used a digital caliper perhaps I measured wrong Im second guessng myself now. And yeah I will be tearing back in to again soon as I get the new parts

[TopCatGr58]

Another thing I just thought about. When you have the clutch housing off, check to make sure all 3 ball bearings are in their correct location in throw out mechanism. IT might have gotten tilted, causing it to be hard to actuate, and also possibly not releasing all the way. The manual states that you are to NOT allow the clutch lever to rotate while it's being put into place, either tape it in place or such to keep it from accidentally rotating clockwise like when the clutch is actuated, that way the bearings will stay in their channels until the case it secured, and the throwout rod is properly placed against the throwout bearing!
Just a thought?

Yeah, you want the clutch lever to not start engaging the clutch until you've let it out some, how much is your preference, but this allows you to have a good hold of the handlebar grip when the bike starts to roll.
T.C.

[Incubus]

It wouldn't be the first time I ran into clutch springs that measured within spec but had lost some of their springiness. I've hardly ever run into friction pates that are beyond spec, but I've been through a goodly number of springs. That's what happens when the springs get weak. You're fine off the line and lose the grip at the high end.

You also want to make sure you torque down the main clutch nut sufficiently. If you are light on the torque the clutch can slip at the higher rpms. A quarter turn light on the main nut can make a difference in clutch performance.

I've learned everything I know about clutches by doing everything wrong at least once.

Patrick

[webbcraft2150]

Don't give up!!! I think your new springs will cure your problem. I/we recently replaced the clutch on my 80g. All the plates were within spec. The springs were a hair under but you hafta figure with the years/miles on your rig, heat will take there toll. We replaced plates and springs with Yamaha OEM parts, did not put in a extra steel and emery clothed all the steels. VERY carefully reassembled the whole thing. The result was the ability once again to redline the higher gears.

I cannot vouch for the quality of Versah plates but I can say I will not use there brake pads, they sqeaked worse than a city dump truck no matter what I did. Went back to EBC's and everything was good.

[Ljay40]

Well dove back into the clutch today, while dissambling the plates
I think I have figured out what I done wrong to much in a hurry the clutch friction plateswere like majorally scuffed out and kinda almost crosshatched dont know how to realy explain it other than they looked terrible these were NOS plates with about 30 mins of riding on them
I beleive that I made the major goof of laying in a steel plate first
rather than friction anyone done this one before maybe they could chime in, anyhow added new springs and plates again with
the extra steel and seems to be working very well, Its a big workout on the clutch lever thats for sure.
thanks for all feedback gang

[The Lorax]

question? when one adds an extra steel plate, do you not have to add and extra friction plate as well. I don't remember reading anything about an extra friction disc. I don't want to state the obvious but I felt the need to ask. when I replaced my clutch, I bought a complete set of steel and friction discs, as well as a new set of springs when I took it apart, there was one more friction disc and one more steel plate in the basket. I put it back stock and have had no issues...well, not with the clutch anyway...