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My wife loves my XS (the @#@!@#!)

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  • My wife loves my XS (the @#@!@#!)

    But it's not because she knows I love to ride. And it's not because my XS is named for that youthful vision I still hold of her, that exotic dreamlike woman who was much too warm and beautiful to even go out with the likes of me. And it's not because she knows I love tinkering with old cycles, bringing them back to life. I have eight - well, seven and one ran-out-of-oil seized engine paper weight - and six of them would make any old tinkerer proud.

    No, my wife loves my XS11 because she believes - and frequently tells me - that I could use a bit more humility in my character. In the interest of full disclosure, she believes a could use a really healthy dose of additional humility in my character.

    The XS is delivering it. In spades. All of my bikes started out as rusted, frozen lawn statues. Six of my bikes now look pretty sharp and run wonderfully. Then we have my big Yamaha. My Succubus, who is trying to screw my ego to death though I am wakeful.

    Because of a recent shuddering problem on acceleration, which faithful readers may well remember, I replaced the carbs with my backup carbs after a "thorough" cleaning. This was supposed to present two advantages. 1. The backup carbs were much lower mileage, which should mean much lower wear on the emulsifier tubes. 2. My backup carbs did not have broken air screws jamming up any holes.

    I mounted them. I started my bike. Thank God it wasn't in gear, else I would have been sleeping with it ever since. You see, the back garage wall, with an XS-shaped hole in it, would have provided me with a new door into my bedroom. As soon as the bike started it shot to about 6,000 rpm. Wouldn't come down. The engine sounded really angry. The throttle screw is fully relieved, the air screws were out only 1/2 a turn at the end before I pulled the carbs, the throttle cable was unsnagged. The carb holders are new, the clamps were tight, the vacuum lines new and properly attached. The slides move up and down and the diaphrams looked good when I cleaned and inspected the carbs. I have a broken mount for a carb vent on the stock airbox, but that wouldn't seem to be the issue since many run simple filters on those when they run pods.

    So my carbs are again on my workbench and my ego is so far below my garage that it would need a Winchester to find air. My wife believes this will be a good thing, in the long run, but I believe I am too old to worry much about the long run.

    The plugs are black and sooty and the bike backfire coughs sometimes. When I took the carbs apart she had 127.5 main jets, 45 pilots and plugged towers. I replaced the mains with the 137.5 mains I had in my other carbs. The pilots I cleaned and reinserted.

    What should I clean? What should I adjust? My first guess would be a massive air leak into a cylinder. But 'm out of guesses about were to look.

    Help.

    Patrick
    Last edited by Incubus; 03-24-2007, 01:13 PM.
    The glorious rays of the rising sun exist only to create shadows in which doom may hide.

    XS11F (Incubus, daily rider)
    1969 Yamaha DT1B
    Five other bikes whose names do not begin with "Y"

  • #2
    Did not notice if you did the "bench sync" .
    elevated slides could do that.......


    mro

    Comment


    • #3
      I did bench sync it, Mike. Twice actually. I've let it sit for a few hours, to allow the XS to ponder that it's lack of cooperation is keeping it off the road. It's 78 and sunny and I have a perfectly good Honda 750. Revved that Honda right in front of it. Scratched it behind the fairing. Take that, Succubus.

      It was a wonderful ride. 150 miles of winding springtime country roads.

      Now back to it.

      Patrick
      The glorious rays of the rising sun exist only to create shadows in which doom may hide.

      XS11F (Incubus, daily rider)
      1969 Yamaha DT1B
      Five other bikes whose names do not begin with "Y"

      Comment


      • #4
        As I posted on another persons thread... the shuddering is NOT carbs. Take it from this old gearhead with intimate XS11 experience. Unique to the XS11, it's the vacuum advance. Read what I shared here:
        http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread...threadid=12680

        As for the 6,000 rpm "idle", go back to basics... butterflies in the correct position? Slides free moving, down at idle? Vacuum leaks? Enrichener plungers seating properly? Or change back to the carbs that were not the cause of the shuddering problem.

        Comment


        • #5
          Any chance the carb boot clamp on #2 or #3 is interfering with the throttle linkage?

          Comment


          • #6
            My shuddering was not in the low ranges as covered in that other thread, Concours. It actually ran pretty good under 5,000 rpm. Over 5,000 rpm is where the shuddering began. Shuddering above 5,000 in all gears that I was brave enough to experiment with. I naturally went to the carbs because it's always the carbs. If it runs bad, it's usually the carbs. If the tires go flat, I suspect the carbs. If the wind blows the bike over, the carbs were probably to blame. If my wife yells at me about something, I tell her to talk to the carbs.

            Before, it may not have been the carbs. Now I blame the carbs.

            I did have issues with the pickup coil wires. They may still be a issue. I won't know for sure until I can get back at least to where I was before this last "improvement." These carbs are in much better shape than the original carbs, so I plan to make them work.

            I've cleaned them again. I've bench synched them again. I've set the floats again to 25mm. The jets were just cleaned, and since they are apparently allowing enough fuel through for a very impressive war memorial type fountain, I'll probably leave them be. I don't know how the diaphrams work or what they do, so I just checked them for tears or breaks and seating. The slides move freely.

            I fixin' to mount them again and start the bike. If I live through the experience. I'll post the results.
            The glorious rays of the rising sun exist only to create shadows in which doom may hide.

            XS11F (Incubus, daily rider)
            1969 Yamaha DT1B
            Five other bikes whose names do not begin with "Y"

            Comment


            • #7
              45's?

              Idle jets should be 42.5 and idle airjets should be 180, of course I'm not really sure what model you're talking about.
              You can't stay young forever, but you can be immature for the rest of your life...

              '78E "Pathfinder" Show bike...
              Lovingly restored by Dave Delzell
              Drilled airbox
              Tkat fork brace
              Hardly mufflers
              late model carbs
              Newer style fuses
              Oil pressure guage
              Custom security system
              Stainless braid brake lines

              Comment


              • #8
                Hey Patrick,

                I couldn't see where you mentioned the year of the NEW carbs? You mentioned the pilot plugs on your old set, which is correct. Did you check to see if you have that little tunnel between the main and pilot jet towers? IF so, then you need the pilot tower plugs. IF you didn't put them back in, then that could be where your extra fuel is coming from, both from the bowl and the main jet to pilot jet supply, when IF it has that tunnel, should only be coming thru the main jet with the pilot jet tower plugged!
                T.C.
                T. C. Gresham
                81SH "Godzilla" . . .1179cc super-rat.
                79SF "The Teacher" . . .basket case!
                History shows again and again,
                How nature points out the folly of men!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hi T.C.,

                  I updated my signature to reflect the actual model of my XS. I should have done that a long time ago.

                  Anyway, my bike is a Standard. My original carbs were most likely the original carbs from the bike. My backup carbs are from a 1979 XS1100 SF. I took the octopus off prior to mounting them.

                  Here's an update.

                  When I installed the backup carbs I first had to replace the number 4 carb with the number 4 carb from my original because a float pin tower from the number 4 carb on the backup set was broken. The diaphram in both number 4 carbs was unbroken and pliable and the slide moved freely in both, so I figured a carb for carb switch was the easiest approach. They were the same year and model of carb, after all.

                  What with my engine attempting to rev fast enough to bend the time/space continuum, however, I took a closer look at that number 4 carb. With my original set I had faced an issue of the engine racing when I had the choke applied. I never figured out why, but figured I would get to that later since the bike idled down when the choke was off. Now I think I know why that was happening.

                  On closer inspection, I noticed that the dampening effect of the diaphram and spring in the number 4 carb was significantly lighter than the dampening effect in the other three replacement carbs. The slide in that carb moved more easily and kinda snapped back into place, rather than easing down, like in the other three carbs. It had felt fine in the original set, when compared to the other original carbs. In this set there was a marked difference. So I removed everything from the number 4 backup carb - diaphram, slide, needle, needle jet - and installed them in the original number 4 carb. This equalized the damping among all four carbs.

                  The result? It's early, I only started it a couple times and it's running kind of rough (the rich running savagd my new plugs) so I have to go back and adjust everything again, but now it appears that the choke no longer revs the engine beyond reason and it winds back down even with the choke on. The extreme high revving on start appears to be gone. I haven't run it yet to see if the shuddering has been eliminated, but I'm probably going to put in the clutch plates got from Webbcraft last week before I run it and hope that between the two repairs all issues will disappear.

                  In short, I still don't know what improvement those diaphrams offer over earlier Mikuni carbs without diaphrams, but I think I know what happens then they get old and lose some of their elasticity...

                  Patrick
                  Last edited by Incubus; 03-25-2007, 10:27 AM.
                  The glorious rays of the rising sun exist only to create shadows in which doom may hide.

                  XS11F (Incubus, daily rider)
                  1969 Yamaha DT1B
                  Five other bikes whose names do not begin with "Y"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hey Patrick,

                    Glad you seem to have found your gremlin. Sounds like the PO might have done a Dyna-Jet conversion, which IIRC, uses lighter weight/tension springs, and also involves drilling out the vent hole in the slide itself which causes it to respond quicker, goes up and down faster!

                    Your replacement carbs are probably true OEM parts, so swapping the innards back into the swapped body has probably gotten you balanced back again.

                    Hope it solved your problem?!
                    T.C.
                    T. C. Gresham
                    81SH "Godzilla" . . .1179cc super-rat.
                    79SF "The Teacher" . . .basket case!
                    History shows again and again,
                    How nature points out the folly of men!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      FYI, those carbs you got from me came off the 79 did have a 4 to 1 on it so maybe he did frig with the jetting. But that would not explain the 6k idle. The doner '79 had the engine apart to, maybe he freaked when he has a 6k idle and wasn't quick enough on the kill switch.
                      When a 10 isn't enough, get a 11. 80g Hardbagger

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        4-stack

                        The more I fiddle and fight with four seperate carbs and all those jets and synchronising and linkages and cleaning and cleaning and cleaning and cleaning those teensy little passages the more I cry to Heaven;
                        Why O Lord Why?
                        Why not a simple manifold and one effin'great Stromberg?
                        Fred Hill, S'toon.
                        Fred Hill, S'toon
                        XS11SG with Spirit of America sidecar
                        "The Flying Pumpkin"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I had that happen once, then I noticed that my throttle cable wasn't seated in the slot it goes in.
                          Jeff
                          77 XS750 2D completely stock
                          79 SF XS1100 "Picky" stock with harley mufflers

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by fredintoon View Post
                            The more I fiddle and fight with four seperate carbs and all those jets and synchronising and linkages and cleaning and cleaning and cleaning and cleaning those teensy little passages the more I cry to Heaven;
                            Why O Lord Why?
                            Why not a simple manifold and one effin'great Stromberg?
                            Fred Hill, S'toon.
                            The EPA Fred, the EPA....


                            John
                            John is in an anonymous city with an Alamo (N29.519227,W-98.678980)

                            Go ahead, click on the bikes - you know you want to...the electrons are ready.
                            '81 XS1100H - "Enterprise"
                            Bob Jones Custom Navy bike: Tkat brace, EBC floating rotors & SS lines, ROX pivot risers, Geezer rectifier, new 3H3 engine

                            "Not all treasure is silver and gold"

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              And let's be honest: Four slide carbs DO look a lot better than a manifold and Stromburg!
                              -- Clint
                              1979 XS1100F - bought for $500 in 1989

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