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  • Alternative carbs

    O.K. haven't been around for awhile, here's another mod I did to my XS11(12) - which has an 1196cc motor and ported out head and other go-fast goodies such as Dynacoils, tweaked stock carbs, advanced timing, performance pipes, modded intake(drilled box, K&N), and others.. Now, I dug into my collection of various carburetors scavanged from NZ's equivalent of Ebay - that's TradeMe, over time I've I'd picked up some Gixxer 750 38mm mikunis, some ZRX11 36mm keihins, and some R6 37mm keihins. Decided to try out the 36mm's as their spacing of 75-85-75 are the closest to the XS11's 78-84-78 spacing. Means you can install them to the stock XS11 manifolds with only a small bit of tweaking.

    The R6 and GSXR carbs really need alternative manifolds to fit, the Gixxer 38mm mikunis are a whopping 84.5-89.5-84.5 and the R6 37mm keihins are 75-75-75, but it's still possible to re-space them - albeit with a bit of drama involved. Anyway, with some slight dremelling of just the No1 and No4 XS manifold edges, the 36mm keihins slide in nicely My XS manifolds have been previously slightly opened out inside to match the ported head, so all's good on that front.

    Now to the XS airbox, first thing I did was pull off the crank breather hose and tear out the grungy ridiculous crank breather tubes in there. Last thing you want is hot air in ya engine intake. (should of done that years ago) Then sealed up the hole in the airbox with thick tape at the same time.

    Now, the ZRX keihins have all sorts of bells and whistles tied into the usual annoying twisting conglomeration of tubes and emission control gadgets, they have the sync ports on the carbs themselves rather than on the manifolds too. Ditched the emission gadgets and connected by hose No1 port to No4 and No3 to No 2 for the 'YICS' effect a la XJ's etc...

    Also ran the the XS vac advance from manifold 1 via a tiny 1/2 mm connection as per the stock XS setup. Ran the keihins' bowl breathers to the XS airbox as per XS, and rigged a T fuel connection from both XS petcocks to the keihins single large fuel hose setup. Also butchered an XS throttle cable system to fit, and even rigged an XS choke lever to the side of No1 carb. The ZRX's t.p.s(digital timing gadget) sits unused, but hey, it still LOOKS important though!

    Right then! These modern carbs are an improvement over the poor old 28 years of age BS34's, the low circuits are improved and more refined and the slide components are smaller, lighter, faster! They've got the 'shut throttle enricheners' - small diaphragms that seal up the air jets by vaccuum on the over-run. No popping on deceleration and quick response when back on the gas from closed.

    I modded the carb internals somewhat too, eg- snipped the slide springs 1/2 inch and drilled the slide vac holes slightly in conjunction, also shimmed the stock unadjustable ZRX needles up 2 washers(1mm). Left the floats at 18mm. Running keihin 38 pilots and 130 mains. Then had to elongate the 3 XS airbox bolt connections to bring the airbox closer to the slightly shorter keihins.

    O.K then,got everything I could think of sorted - then came crunch time. Primed the carbs and hit the starter. Fired instantly and settled to a low smooth idle. Great! Plug and play, yeah.

    Rushed inside and grabbed a helmet and gloves, and went for a blast. The good news kept getting better, increased response, smoothness and power was REAL. No more niggly buzzing at 3 grand either. These light modern CV semi-flat slides made the poor old clunky BS34 CV round slides feel like sluggish chunks of lead in comparison.

    Opened her out on the nearest empty road(5 minutes from home) - and hit a true 210kph EASILY. Cracking the throttle wide open at 170kph, she fair rips forward in acceleration. Real buzz! Did a plug chop at the ton, and another at legal speeds, all fine. Rumbles along strongly at 2 grand in 5th, smooth as silk, and still instant response at the slightest touch of throttle.

    The huge velocity stacks in the stock XS airbox are a real asset there, you always hear the 'experts' telling ya that going up in size on carbs will weaken the bottom end torque. Ha!! Not on the XS anyway! Certainly won't be bothering with pod filters, as the power kicks in hard with the 36mm carbs/Xs aibox as is.









    Next mod is to rig a pair of alloy brake caliper brackets to fit some fireblade 4-pot calipers to the XS forks. Will post some picks of that one later. Cheers.

  • #2
    Nice work pat

    Sounds like you'll be ripping up the twisties even better than before. Now that you have the go, what about the whoa? You gotta stop that thing also. ya know? Wait, you have replaced the calipers, haven't you?
    Oh, welcome back.

    Comment


    • #3
      Advance vac line...

      Doesn't those carbs have the proper place to connect the spark advance hose? I see you have it connected to the # 1 cyl instead of the usual fitting on the # 2 carb behind the throttle plate.
      You can't stay young forever, but you can be immature for the rest of your life...

      '78E "Pathfinder" Show bike...
      Lovingly restored by Dave Delzell
      Drilled airbox
      Tkat fork brace
      Hardly mufflers
      late model carbs
      Newer style fuses
      Oil pressure guage
      Custom security system
      Stainless braid brake lines

      Comment


      • #4
        I have 36mm "slingshot" carbs from a GSXR750 on my XS11, and it is all true! The difference in power and progression has to be tried to be believed!....... Go for it!

        AlanB
        If it ain't broke, modify it!

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi Tex, yep even lunatics need brakes Hey Plane, those keihins run the timing curve from a sensor on the butterflys, I'm assuming my vac advance works ok connected to No1 rather than No2, runs well anyway. Hey Al, I've got some slingshot 38mm's, bit wide spaced for an easy fit, but might experiment with them one day.

          Comment


          • #6
            Darn...

            Gotta get me some of those...
            79F - "Anakin Skywalker"
            transforming into:
            "Darth Vader"

            Comment


            • #7
              do yo think there is be a power or torque curve, change or just a drivability change?
              "a good man knows his limitations" dirty harry
              History
              85 Yamaha FJ 1100
              79 yamaha xs1100f
              03 honda cbr 600 f4
              91 yamaha fzr 600
              84 yamaha fj 1100
              82 yamaha seca 750
              87 yamaha fazer
              86 yamaha maxim x
              82 yamaha vision
              78 yamaha rd 400

              Comment


              • #8
                Dunno Mason, it's a ride it and feel it thing. Not a very satisfactory answer I know

                Comment


                • #9
                  pggg, don't you already have old dyno paper? Maybe you could do a new run and see what the numbers say...
                  '81 XS1100 SH

                  Melted to the ground during The Valley Fire

                  Sep. 12th 2015

                  RIP

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    81' I've never done any dyno runs on my XS's, am always threatening to do so, but never have! Mainly coz dynos are few and far between down here and bloody expensive to play on. Say 'rip-off' My 'dynos' are deserted roads

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      dynos schminos

                      I agree with pggg, I will be doing some other carb choice for the 1200cc chop. Probably even copy cat his idea....
                      MDRNF
                      79F.....Not Stock
                      80G......Not Stock Either....In the works

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hi Pggg,

                        I didn't have a problem with the spacing; the "pairs" are correct , but the centre two carbs are 10mm too far apart. I put the left-hand carbs in the rubbers, tightened the outer clip up, then leant on the righthand end of the bank- and they popped in!

                        I tightened the clips quick, and have had no problems!

                        I also have a set of the 38s; they are much bigger, and don't clear the tank!

                        Over here, the 38s are worth a lot more than 36s; so sell the big ones, buy some 36s, and buy a beer with the extra money!

                        AlanB
                        If it ain't broke, modify it!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          mmmmm.... Beer!

                          37mm keihin R6's and the 38mm mikuni 'slingshots' The downdraft keihins have a classy triangular 'pivoting' fuel bowl, the level stays the same even at a 45deg tilt.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Okay, time for an update to this thread....

                            I have a set of 2004 ZRX1200 carbs installed on my XS11 right now. They are 36mm Keihin CVK carbs. So far, they have required no modifications (I will have to perform a throttle cable clamp mod). Otherwise, they are bolt and go. I am using stock petcocks and the stock airbox.

                            Right now I'm done for the evening, but I may get some time tomorrow to work on the carbs again.

                            I do have some problems.
                            1. For some reason, when the petcock valves are turned on, the bowls fill up but then fuel spills out of the overflow tube. I admit I did not check all 4 float bowls before installing; I checked one and it was spotless. I will most likely have to remove the carbs and check the floats.

                            2. The Kawasaki throttle set up is a push-pull design. The Kawi cables have little fittings that slide into a throttle clamp on the carbs. The XS cable will work if I modify a clamp or install a clamp at the location of the rear center valve cover bolt.

                            3. I need to figure out the best way to route fuel lines. Presently I run two tubes into one tube, through a fuel filter, then to the carb bank - for each petcock. The ZRX carbs are fed fuel from the top while the XS carbs get fuel through the bottom, so tubing gets cramped without some creativity.

                            4. I plan to use the spark advance unit as normal. However before I can use the advance, I will have to try to install a small plastic plug - drilled through the center by a small hole - into the normal vacuum advance tube to keep the advance unit from going nuts.

                            I could not test the bike because of the fuel leak. I did fill the float bowls before shutting off fuel. I started the bike on choke and ran it for about 2 minutes and shut off the choke.

                            I revved it just a bit and I can already tell there is a difference with these carbs, but I won't know where I stand in the tuning process until I can put the engine under load. Also, I haven't connected the vacuum advancer unit yet.

                            I left the float levels where they were. I did check jet needle position and it is in the middle. These needles are adjustable. I did not touch anything else.

                            So, as soon as I can work through the issues I mentioned, I can't wait to try things out. However, it is going to snow this weekend, so I may be sitting on this project for months.

                            pggg, How did you handle the throttle cable issue?

                            Ben
                            1985 Yamaha VMX12n "Max X" - Stock
                            1982 Honda XL500r "Big Red" - Stump Puller. Unknown mileage.
                            1974-78 Honda XL350 hybrid - The thumper that revs. Unknown miles.
                            1974 Suzuki TC/TS125 hybrid. Trials with trail gear. Invaluable. Unknown miles.
                            1971 Honda CL350. For Dad. Newtronic Electronic Ign. Reliable. Unknown miles.

                            Formerly:
                            1982 XS650
                            1980 XS1100g
                            1979 XS1100sf
                            1978 XS1100e donor

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Nice work Ben,
                              looking forward to hearing about your results.
                              Last edited by petejw; 11-28-2007, 12:27 AM.
                              pete


                              new owner of
                              08 gen2 hayabusa


                              former owner
                              1981 xs1100 RH (aus) (5N5)
                              zrx carbs
                              18mm float height
                              145 main jets
                              38 pilots
                              slide needle shimmed .5mm washer
                              fitted with v/stax and uni pod filters

                              [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pA8dwxmAVA&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL[/url]

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