Pods and hard starting.

[Hired_Goon]

Having trouble getting the bike started in the morning. Essentially the bike runs perfectly, carbs are synced and colourtuned. Idles very steadily under 1000 RPM whether hot or cold.

Haven't rejetted the mains yet but the pilot is one size higher and needles are standard setting.

Bearing in mind our mornings here are not cold, T shirts and shorts outside for morning coffee, so I would expect the old girl to fire straight up.

If I try and start her, she will just crank with no signs of firing. If I use a spray bottle with fuel in it and spray a little bit on the two outside pods, she will fire straight up and idle normally.

Any other time during the day I have no problems. Just in the morning when it has been sitting overnight.

So my question is, are the pods letting too much air in and not creating enough vacuum to suck through some fuel.

Cranking speed is excellent and the battery is brand spanking last month.

No air leaks in the boots.

Basically she runs better than it did off the showroom floor except for the starting. Full choke or no choke makes no difference.

I'm stumped on this one, any ideas???
Anyone else with pods have a similar problem?

[oseaghdha]

Did you try setting the petcock to prime first?
Once it's been running the float bowls will be filled.
Don't know why they would be low to begin with.
After it's started, does the choke do anything at all?

[Hired_Goon]

Yep, tried Prime for five minutes before starting. No difference.

Yes, the choke works as it should. Increase in revs for both settings. I usually leave it on the first click while gearing up to warm it up. Runs about 12 - 1400rpm on first click.

[red bandit]

Sounds like your choke/enricher circit is pluged or at least partially pluged. Maybe only 1-2 carbs aren't pluged. Idle should go higher then 1400rpm. Spray carb cleaner in the little tube that sticks down into the fuel bowl, make sure little hole near the base of carb is clear also.

[Hired_Goon]

Choke enricher circuit is fine, 1400 rpm is about right considering what the idle is set at.(~850) Full on choke will run about 2500. I know ~850 is below specs but it runs perfectly there so I haven't bothered bringing it up.

Carbs are spotlessly clean inside and I even removed the choke valve when I cleaned them. All passages have been poked and blown.

I had these carbs on my other bike for a while with a stock airbox and it started fine every time, it's only struggling with the pods on which confuses the hell out of me.

I've even tried leaving it on the centre stand overnight to level it up hoping that would make a difference. It didn't.

[trbig]

All passages have been poked and blown.

Including the one in the edge of the carb bowl itself? Sounds like enrichener circuit to me also. 2 carbs that are unclogged, will bring the others up with them after it is running..(Just ONE carb out of synch will bring them all up) bringing the rpms up to where they should be.. but not enough air going through them to pull the others up when just cranking.

After you crank it with the choke on... check to see if all the plugs are wet. If they are... you may be getting a weak spark??

Read here..

Carbs..... not

Good luck.

Tod

[goldcoastguy001]

I know this will sound silly, but i had a similar problem way back...I had trouble starting her in the morning. well after countless times removing the tank and carbs i sat down with a drink and a friend turned up he took one look at the bike a said...." are those fuel lines spose to curve up in the air by the petcocks?".....DUH!!......each time i took the tank off i failed to pulled the fuel lines down under the tank....once the bike was running it had just enough gravity feed to keep it coming but over night the fuel would evaporate with the hot weather and then not fill up again when on prime.... need less to say this also cured my fuel starvation at high revs.....

[TopCatGr58]

Good point GCG,

Another thing to check though is whether your butterflies are fully closed? The pods do let in lots of air, but I've got them on mine with no problems. BUT, if the butterflies are not fully closed, then the air is rushing thru the throat of the carb and can't develop enough vacuum to suck the fuel up thru the enrichener circuit. Same thing happens IF you try to turn the throttle when starting with the choke, you actually defeat the enrichener by letting too much air past the butterflies.

Some of us are used to cars and "pumping" the throttle works the carb pump squirting in more fuel, but there isn't a pump on our carbs!
T.C.

[Hired_Goon]

Thanks guys, some good info there.

I don't really think a weak spark is an issue as the plugs are not getting wet. Basically with a squirt of fuel on the two pods it will fire up on vapors alone.

The fuel lines are a possibility though. Brand new lines, but with the filters on them they tend to sick up ten mm higher than the petcock once the tank goes down to the final resting spot. Might have to look at rerouting under the pods. Although I do notice that my filters are not full so maybe an airlock in there somewhere.

Also, as TC points out, maybe I need to look at my starting technique. Do I open the throttle when I start it?? Don't know, it's just the way I have been starting bikes for the last thirty years. Now I will have to make a conscious effort to see if I do.

Cheers guys, will let you know after a bit more experimenting.

[oseaghdha]

I read in one of the pod threads that the rubber can partially block the bleeds on the air horn.
I know one of those jets feeds the enricher circuit.
Mayhaps its enough to prevent proper flow at starting rpm.

[Hired_Goon]

Originally posted by oseaghdha
I read in one of the pod threads that the rubber can partially block the bleeds on the air horn.
I know one of those jets feeds the enricher circuit.
Mayhaps its enough to prevent proper flow at starting rpm.

Checked that before I put the pods on. No lips or anything to block it.

[prometheus578]

"I'll play your game..."

Do a compression check first thing in the morning. If that's normal, then swap the brain box from one of your other bikes. Try the next morning to start it.
Don't ask why... just do it.
If I'm right, I'll explain later.
(If I'm wrong, tough... I live too far away for you to do anything about it!)
And when you're doing the compression check(with all the plugs out and the throttle wide open, have the sparkplugs in their caps( lying against the head but away from the open plug holes) and observe just how strong your spark is.

[Hired_Goon]

We have a winner.

Got her to fire up this morning without the squirt of additive.

Full choke and hand away from the throttle. Cranked for about 5 seconds as it slowly started firing one at a time before running smoothly.

Seems "someone" must have a bad habit of opening the throttle while starting. Must be a hang up from the two stroke days.

Will see how it goes for the next few days before curiosity gets me and I follow Prom's suggestion. Sunday maybe.

[motoman]

Was just going to tell you that Goon..............but see you figured that out................when cold don't open those throttle plates, as it lets in just enough air to lean it........won't start.........guarentee it....unless you have a tricky way to add fuel with the extra air.

[Ken Talbot]

I know it has been addressed already, but I'd still like to see you get into the spooge holes in the bottom of the float bowls one more time.