New gears for trans rebuild

[MAXIMAN]

Originally posted by GNEPIG
..
.. this is by no means "the great transmission fix" or the end to all of your problems, it is just another upgrade. this upgrade along with several others will help to make your old transmission feel more modern.
Cody, did you use the shifter lever that i sent you also? i'm not sure what it came off of. i had two of them so it probably cam off of an early 80s XS650[pictures that i have seen on Ebay seem to confirm this also]. the lever i have sent you is a 1/2" shorter, this also helps to shorten the throw.
if you feel bored one day, put the old set of levers back on your bike and compare them, there is quite a difference.
..i'm glad you like it.

It may not be a "fix" but it is certainly an upgrade. Really tightens things up and makes the shift much more responsive. And yes I installed the short lever. This too is a nice upgrade...it gives the feel of less movement required for the shift...because with a shorter lever the shift radius is smaller.

Thanks Gene!

[mason79]

Originally posted by MAXIMAN
Lay off guys. It's a common mistake. Many shaft driven bikes...the intermediate gear runs in the same oil the transmission does.

okay, i know most cars nowadays are engineered differently and to approach a maintenance or repair on something that is unfamiliar( obvious) without opening a book, is a mark of an unprepared ,apathethic or over confident individual, read: dangerous.

gross negligence would not come to mind, however should there have the incident that resulted in death, injury dismemberment, or no more maximan ,the tech, would have had a micrometer shove up his gear box so far his insurance company would have drop the shop he was in and the shop would have given him the opportunity to shop for another shop.

motorcycling is dangerous enough, who needs "tech" induced equipment
failure.

there is a positive, though, it was not a airplane that the tech experimented on., you didn't have far to fall but the thought of it, makes me want to me go out and by some more armour...

[trbig]

I'm glad this had an uneventfull ending somewhat, but the lesson I see in all this is not to bad mouth the tech and lay total blame on him. People do mess up and nobody is infallable. If someone else has worked on your bike, take an extra minute to look and see that all the nuts and bolts are there, and it doesn't take much time to check your fluids really quick if they've been in there. I can't tell you the times I have forgotten things at a station I worked at once upon a time because I was interupted talking to customers on the phone, and trying to do 15 other things at once.

So... easy on the tech... let's all blame Cody instead! lol.

Even the best mechanics make mistakes... don't blindly trust anyone. I'm glad to see Cody found someone who will actually work on these things for him.

Tod

[MAXIMAN]

Originally posted by mason79
...gross negligence would not come to mind, however should there have the incident that resulted in death, injury dismemberment, or no more maximan ,the tech, would have had a micrometer shove up his gear box so far his insurance company would have drop the shop he was in and the shop would have given him the opportunity to shop for another shop.

motorcycling is dangerous enough, who needs "tech" induced equipment
failure.

there is a positive, though, it was not a airplane that the tech experimented on., you didn't have far to fall but the thought of it, makes me want to me go out and by some more armour...

I can't argue withthat fact. It scares me too thinking of going down at 80 mph from this type mistake.

But this is precisely why nearly every shop I know in this state refuses to work on anything older than 10 years. Not only are parts hard to find...but the likely hood of mechanical failure resulting in serious injury orworse is much higher. So the it is simply not worth the risk for most shops.

I can not tell you how many shops have turned me down for mechnical repairs on my older bikes. I've even had twwo shop here in OK refuse to install tires on older bikes (one an 11 another a 750 Maxim).

My newer bikes no problem but anything older than decade they simply won't touch it. The primary reason is probability of failure resulting in a law suit....even if it wasn't their fault.

Personally...now this is just me speaking...personally I would have a hard time suing some one over an honest mistake. Unless it were gross negligence or malice of forethought ....just human error is not somethign I would sue over because I too make honest mistakes and hope some one wouldn't sue me for it.

[rneal55555]

They won't work on them because frequently the number of hours they put into at there hourly labor rate makes the bill close if not more than he value of the bike. So either they give the guy a break on the labor cost or they end up with an old MC taking up space in there shop while they owner thinks about whether or not they want to pay a $800 repair bill on a $1200 MC.

Bottom line is in any Auto or MC repair business especially dealerships they usually expect the shop to cover their overhead so each service bay, lift, etc needs to be full and charging their hourly labor rate. On old bikes frequently it's tough to do. Ask every shopowner how many times some guys old bike has sat waiting (taking up space) for him to come up with the money or ask them how many time on an old nike they just never come back.
JMHO

[mro]

originally posted by rneal55555
Ask every shopowner how many times some guys old bike has sat waiting (taking up space) for him to come up with the money or ask them how many time on an old nike they just never come back.

Should not happen (or very infrequently).
Have a repair shop, give quote for repair and stick to quote.
On occasion have found other problems while making repair. If significant extra cost, stop and inform customer, if simple, just fix.

originally posted by MadMaxiMan
Personally...now this is just me speaking...personally I would have a hard time suing some one over an honest mistake.

Out here on the "left coast" they would sue the shop, the dealer who originally sold the bike, probably the guy who shipped bike from manufacturer and of course the manufacturer too and would add anyone else even remotely linked.
(cost to defend oneself can run in the 10's of thousands)



mro

[mason79]

yes i understand your kind nature maximan, however should the resultant damage whatever it was , been financially insumountable,or significant enough whereby you felt nessesary to pursue reimbursment, a quick claim to there insurers would be in order.

the lawsuit would follow if they somehow deny your percieved just claim, that said.

in reading your posts, i get the idea you know more about these bikes far greater than the average xsive, and your taking the bike to shops for more than simple procedure is converse to how i would do it imho, easy stuff for me hard stuff for them.

i recently got back into motorcyclng, and have not needed to seek repair services outside of what i could do myself, should that ocassion arise, my opinion is, it's a matter of economics,


i don't think a shop should or do charge differently for differnet aged motorcycles, and the owner presented with the cost of his- choice service, can weigh; as with any other costs associated with being alive, the benefit that cost provides verses the proportional thinning of his ration, budget, bank account whatever you want to call it, in which he decide to make the tradeoff or not.

i don't think the shop decides it is too much for the coustomer, i think the coustomer decides it's too much, heck while true that many xsirs here are challeged in the financial aspect, many are not, and differing mechanical abilties splatter the map the same way,

the love of these bike brings this mix bag and the service provider cannot determine the threshold in which you are willing to pay for whatever service you may need from them, tire change included.

insofar as liabilty, i feel the insurers has figured this out long time ago for christ sakes the mighty eleven was scaring people in the 70's that 30 years, i think color tv was new or was it the toaster?

i really don't think one major insurance company will write a contract that differ from another, relative to the liabilties a shop would encounter on a day to day basis, heck when you think about it , it's the small shops that take in these old machines and from an economic standpoint, the small shop has less resources to counter a liabilty claim should it arise.

imho again the bigger place don't have or is willing to spend the time looking things up in manuals thay don't got for bike they have no experiece with, cause the greenhorn is struggling to learn how to take the rats nest of faring screws off an 06 model.

prom would have to chime in on this one, of course remember this is my opinion.

[MAXIMAN]

Originally posted by mro
Out here on the "left coast" they would sue the shop, the dealer who originally sold the bike, probably the guy who shipped bike from manufacturer and of course the manufacturer too and would add anyone else even remotely linked.
(cost to defend oneself can run in the 10's of thousands)

mro

So true.... I realize there are times to sue...but geez it seems like our culture has gone "sue crazy" recently.

[DiverRay]

I agree, MAXIMAN. The lawsuit has become a way of life, and a money maker for some people.
My "winter project" has a rear tire that won't roll. The PO had replaced the engine because the original quit turning. It will run, and shift with the clutch in, but kills the engine when you try to go. Guess what I plan on working on with BOTH engines!!
I do need to look at the shifter mods, as I'd like a close shifting trans for the winter project.
Stay safe, and have a Merry Christmas.
Ray

[shutchis]

I need some advice...maybe MAXIMAN can share his skills.

I need to fix my 2nd gear; the XJ1100J keeps "slipping" out of gear. I see you bought a new one.

What should I buy and from whom? Or should I back cut the gear myself? Are there other things I should know before flipping my bike and pulling the transmission cover?

How long does this repair take, a weekend?

Thanks

[MAXIMAN]

Personally I bought new gears because they are still available and I wanted to make the new transmission as strong as possibly to match the hopped up motor it will service.

However many XSives have repaired the gears with a dremmel with excellent results. There is a lengthy repair thread here with photos and detailed instructions you can refer to.

I would venture a guess the dremel fix couldbe done in an afternoon if everything went right.

But the ultimate "fix".... to replace gears requires removing the motor and splitting cases. The turn around time for this job would likely take a couple of five or six hour days.

[DiverRay]

Stan,
If you buy NEW gears from Yamaha, they will already be cut. I was able to do a transmission fix in less than two days, so a weekend should be fine. The second and fifth gears are the ones you want, IIRC. Go to the main forum page, and look at TC's three part second gear fix. I printed that out, and used it for my transmission fix. That was done in 2005, and I've put over 25K on it since without a problem.
Don't forget to look at the shift forks, as the one for second was bad from trying to keep it in gear!

[shutchis]

Wow, Great response. Thanks guys.

The Dremmel fix in the 'Repair/Transmission' forum looks do-able. I was always careful with the transmission and treated it "nicely"; but I think the extra torque from my engine mods did it in. I just finished a 6 month project; replacing the carbs and ignition systems with a MegaSquirt electronic fuel injection system. If you're interested, I posted my work in the XS11: 'Modifications\Carburetors and Fuel System' forum.

My 2nd gear problem appeared shortly after my road trials. Oh well, Things happen, and this is a known weakness in Yamaha's transmissions.

I'll try the dremmel fix. If the gear looks too worn, or there's other problems, I'll buy some new gears and split the case.

Fantastic response. Thanks for the good advice.

[DiverRay]

Stan,
You DO NOT have to split the cases to fix or replace the gears!!! Read the dremmel fix, the transmission parts that need replacement or fixing WILL come out WITHOUT splitting the case.
Ray

[shutchis]

Just so I'm sure and that I understand your response...the dremmel fix does NOT need the engine case split; I can remove the gears after pulling the clutch basket and counter shaft bearing.

If I decided to install new gears and not perform the dremmel fix, I just purchase a 2nd and 5th gear for the counter shaft and install them. While I'm in the neighborhood, I should inspect the 1st and 4th gears, i.e. the dogs and slots, for wear.

Did I get this right?

Any idea what the new gears will cost? I'll give the Yamaha dealer a call this morning for price and delivery.

From your response, it sounds like the dremmel fix is a solid and lasting repair. I'm glad you responded and corrected my thinking. Thanks for the info. I have a three day weekend, it's raining,and I'm stuck indoors; hmm, sounds like a shop day; to work on "boy toys". Stan