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Thansksgiving day woes

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  • Thansksgiving day woes

    Well today started out well, like any other day. Since my family was going to have dinner at my sister's small apartment in Denton, we had all the food prepared and ready to go. My mom left in the cage to haul the food but my Dad and I were not ready to leave yet. Since the weather was nice, we decided to ride up there. He rode his 79F and I rode the 79SF. I must say that I am falling in love with this bike. It still isn't my favorite though. Well to get to the point, this bike has had some engine trouble long ago that I was never able to recreate in order to isolate the problem. Well today on the 35 mile trip to Denton, it decided to show up. In neutral, the engine revs fine and sounds awesome. When I get up to around 70-80mph, I begin to loose power. I seems as though some cylinders are cutting out when I open up the throttle. I don't know how to tell which ones are cutting out because it only happens at high speed. Does anyone have any ideas about how to tackle this problem? If I could recreate the problem in my garage, it would be an easy fix. Well, in order to make it to Denton, I had to keep it up around 90mph. When I got to there everything was great untill I got back on to go home. I noticed that my right side cover was missing and the rubber gromet that holds it in place was destroyed. Now on the way home, the engine ran as though nothing had happened. The only good thing that happened to the bike was that lagging spedo finnaly decided to work properly. It wouldn't zero for about 3 min if you were going even 45mph.
    I can not describe was is happening to the engine well enough because I have no idea what is happening to it. It seems as though just one cylinder is cutting our but I don't know how to really tell. If it is was a fuel problem, how could it just come and go like that? Being an intermittant and rarely occuring problem, that leads me to believe it is somesort of ignition/ wiring problem. I was thinking maby the pickup coil wires were bad, but wouldn't that problem only happen when THe throttle was opened or closed rapidly changine the manifold pressure? Could it possibly be the TCI getting hot and cutting out one coil? Or, could one coil be cutting out? On these types of days, I really feal like a meathead because I didn't notice the side cover flying off Although I am still laughing from when first saw my new status lol
    United States Merchant Marine Academy, Kings Point, NY
    If I can do it at 18 yrs old, anyone can
    "You know something, You can't polish a turd"
    "What are you rebelling against", "Well, what do you got?"
    Acta Non Verba

  • #2
    replace the wire in the pickup coils. the constant movement of the vaccum advance is wearing the wires out.

    First bike was an: 1978 XS1100
    Second bike is an FJR1300.
    Now I'm restoring a '79 XS1100.

    Comment


    • #3
      Spark or gas...

      Yeah, what rush said...check the pickup coil wires...

      Also check the vent in the gas cap (special) or the vent hose (standard) for blockage. Blocked caps or vent tubes cause a vacuum lock in the tank at higher fuel usage...especially in mild temps.

      Then check/clean ALL the connectors in the ignition system. High RPM uses significantly more amperage, and dirty connections can cause the voltage to drop and reduce spark effectiveness...again, more prominant in cooler temps.
      CUAgain,
      Daniel Meyer
      Author. Adventurer. Electrician.
      Find out why...It's About the Ride.

      Comment


      • #4
        I will try that. How do I know that would solve the problem? This has only happened twice in 6 months. Once today and once around when I got the bike. Normally I wouldn't worry about it, but if I am on a trip, I don't want to get stranded. Are there any hard tests that I could do to check the wires, or any visual signs of wire stresss?
        United States Merchant Marine Academy, Kings Point, NY
        If I can do it at 18 yrs old, anyone can
        "You know something, You can't polish a turd"
        "What are you rebelling against", "Well, what do you got?"
        Acta Non Verba

        Comment


        • #5
          continuity tests of the wires, visual inspection of the insulation for thinning. I replaced mine 15 years ago with brand new ones. not long afterwards I had to repair the wires as they had started to wear from rubbing the timing plate. I still use these pickup coils on my donor engine but I rerouted the wires so there is less chance for fatigue.

          First bike was an: 1978 XS1100
          Second bike is an FJR1300.
          Now I'm restoring a '79 XS1100.

          Comment


          • #6
            Hey Andrew,

            As has been stated, the flexing of the wires causes the intermittent contact when the timing plate rotates. It'll rotate at different amounts depending on the Load of the engine, so revving in neutral is a lot different than on the road. The vacuum advance/retard unit will adjust depending on the load.

            You'll want to go to the tech tips, repairs, check out the PickUp coil wires tip, has diagnostics and such. Static continuity checks won't necessarily reveal the problem, you'll want to pull on the wires, flex the timing plate, etc.!
            T.C.
            T. C. Gresham
            81SH "Godzilla" . . .1179cc super-rat.
            79SF "The Teacher" . . .basket case!
            History shows again and again,
            How nature points out the folly of men!

            Comment


            • #7
              "If I may..."

              Dragon rider,
              or the vent hose (standard) for blockage.
              The hose on the standard tank is not a tank vent. The standard has the gas cap down in a square recess in the tank. The tank has a hose, connected to a pipe in the tank, that in turn is connected underneath that recess to allow water to drain out.(rain, or from washing the bike)
              Fuel will also come out of that hose if you overfill the gas tank and then set it on the side stand.(Gas has come out of the seal around the cap)
              "Damn it Jim, I'm a doctor, not a mechanic!' ('Bones' McCoy)

              Comment


              • #8
                The only good thing that happened to the bike was that lagging spedo finnaly decided to work properly. It wouldn't zero for about 3 min if you were going even 45mph
                Pull the speedo cable and lube it. I use a silicone cable lube, Don't use WD40...evaporates and leaves nothing.
                Of course, cable could be good (and it's the speedo housing unit)
                "Damn it Jim, I'm a doctor, not a mechanic!' ('Bones' McCoy)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Well, you guys hit the nail on the head. I really feel like a meathead now (man thats catchy). Since I just got this bike earlier in the summer, I have never pulled the left side cover. I noticed A- The vacuum line was cracked in many places, and B- the line WASN'T EVEN PLUGGED IN TO THE DIAPHRAM!-duhhh Why didn't I check this before? I guess I was a little POd about missing the side cover. I was wondering why this bike always backfired a lot. I am now curious why It only cut out periodically. Since I believe that the vacuum "advance" is really a retard unit, what affect was this causing with te advance fully forward? Sometimes I ask myself why, after being so thorough on my other bikes, I miss something this simple? I will keep riding it hard just to make sure that this was the culprit of todays fiasco . Well, thats one more thing to be thankful for. Thanks, you guys are great. Hopefully no more frustration for a while.
                  United States Merchant Marine Academy, Kings Point, NY
                  If I can do it at 18 yrs old, anyone can
                  "You know something, You can't polish a turd"
                  "What are you rebelling against", "Well, what do you got?"
                  Acta Non Verba

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I have a few more questions. After furthur riding, this time with a new vacuum line installed properly, I don't have quite the same, though similar, results. I still believe it to be the pickup coil wires as said. I looked over the tech tips about fixing the wires and I am a little confused. Am I supposed to just cut the wire where the break is and solder it back togethere, or am I supposed to replace the entire wire section that flexes? I have seen evidence that people have done it both ways. On a side note, which tech tips are better, the ones in the forum or the links on the left?
                    United States Merchant Marine Academy, Kings Point, NY
                    If I can do it at 18 yrs old, anyone can
                    "You know something, You can't polish a turd"
                    "What are you rebelling against", "Well, what do you got?"
                    Acta Non Verba

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      After having replace the whole pick up coil unit on my 78E I thught I had the problem fixed. It started to miss like you described. I took off the side cover and with the bike at idle I physically moved the pick up coils. It started to miss and cut out so I knew that was the problem. Just a quick way to check.
                      78E ... Gone but not forgotten
                      2006 Kawasaki Concours....just getting to know it

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I would check to be sure that the vac advance mechanism under the left side engine cover is moving freely. Mine dried up and wouldn't move properly and the bike ran like crap. A little spray lube and it runs better than ever.
                        Andy

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Andrew,

                          You'll want to replace the entire section as close to the parts as possible without leaving you too short for soldering. Any junction or joint will be stiffer, and cause more problems down the road, so a complete NEW section will have much more flexibility and durability.

                          The vacuum unit IS an advance unit, but it ALSO provides a retarding affect. Under low load throttle input, the vacuum pulse is fairly strong, and advances the timing a fair amount to better use the leaner fuel ration during cruising, but when you hit the throttle, the vacuum actually drops to the advance, retarding the timing back to the more powerful range of timing to better work with the richer fuel air mixture, then as you roll back off the throttle, it returns to the more advanced position again!

                          The tech tips from the MAIN FORUM PAGE are the most recent, but many are duplicates from what you find in the left column!
                          T.C.
                          T. C. Gresham
                          81SH "Godzilla" . . .1179cc super-rat.
                          79SF "The Teacher" . . .basket case!
                          History shows again and again,
                          How nature points out the folly of men!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Since I believe that the vacuum "advance" is really a retard unit
                            That's pretty good... A Meathead/Idiot calling something else a retard unit!
                            "Damn it Jim, I'm a doctor, not a mechanic!' ('Bones' McCoy)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              lol.... My first order of buisness today is to fix the wires. Thanks again for the info. I didn't want to just go out there and start cutting wires and then put them back together again. Better to be safe than sorry as they say.Thanks guys and fellow XSesives
                              United States Merchant Marine Academy, Kings Point, NY
                              If I can do it at 18 yrs old, anyone can
                              "You know something, You can't polish a turd"
                              "What are you rebelling against", "Well, what do you got?"
                              Acta Non Verba

                              Comment

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