anatomy of a basket case ... longer post

[thewiz]

Well, I did it !! Took the plunge and drove the 1000 plus miles one way to the central Oregon coast, bought the 79 SF basket case that was advertised on this site a few weeks back for four hundred dollars and trailered it back to Temecula. It's now shown in the attached photos. Oregon coastline was awesome but the real question is: Where to start?

First, some past and present... allegedly, the original owner split the case to repair a shifting fork, and the re assembly was never completed beyond putting the barrels back on. The PO (who never completed it either) said he replaced an oil ring on one piston with a ring from the spare motor which is a mostly-in-pieces '80 power plant that also came along with the bike. The 79 head is bare with no valve train pieces in evidence .... the '80 head is in pieces but looks to be all there and workable once I put it back together. On this site I have already found out that the two heads are interchangeable. There are two sets of cams but the most worrisome thing I've discovered thusfar is that there are two separate piles of cam journal caps, which have apparently been kept separate but no one knows for sure which pile of caps goes to what head. I haven't opened up any of the carbs .... gulp .... who knows what I'll find there. The PO says there are no acorn nuts for the head studs either. Besides what is shown in the photos, there are literally boxes and boxes of stuff ..... nuts and bolts, covers and caps, gaskets and gears and on and on ......

The clutch is also out and apart. As far as I can tell, its components look to be all there and in good shape but needs re-assembly, of course. Front brake was stuck on after the long trailer ride back to SoCal. Needs emblems, maybe exhaust ... yada, yada .... and I don't even know what else might be missing yet, but I bet I'll find a bunch of the needed stuff through this site !!

I'm a very capable wrench with lots of German and Japanese car experience... but no motorcycle experience (my last 11 never needed any work) Oh yeah, a Clymer manual came with the scooter ....... do ya' think I'm gonna' need it ?? ..... so, alrighty, then ....... who has an idea on the best way to proceed in order to get this baby runnin' and back on the road again? In other words, what would you do first, second, third and so on. Anyone know of a good thread or two to read? Also, does anyone, by chance, happen to recognize this bike? It's tank and side covers are freshly painted ..... almost a deep, metallic, nearly black ..... CORDOVAN ....... Yep ..... Just like the shoes ......

[LoHo]

While your description of the disassembly and pics were great, did you ever find out what problem the POs were trying to solve? Everything looks real clean and cared for. Was it a misguided mod, or a piston/head problem?

[Pat Kelly]

I would address the chassis and suspension first. Steering head bearings, forks, swingarm pivots.
Next would be brakes.
Go through the electrical system, look for burned/worn wires/connectors and clean al the connectors.
Then clean the fuel system, tank, petcocks, and carbs.
Lastly would be the engine.
Detail things along the way, clean, paint, re-wrap, etc.

Opportunity here for a primo XSample of XSiveness. Take lots of photos along the way and take us with you.

[thewiz]

Thx, LoHo ...... All I could get outa' the PO is that it had a "shift fork" issue .... ???. He couldn't/wouldn't tell me why the head was apart or why there are no valves, springs,retainers etc for the original head. I assume he broke a ring installing the barrels ... it happens .... I'm reminded of my first VW experience way, WAY back in the day.... I did the same thing ... I even have his hose clamp/ring compressor in the pile of parts. When I look real closely, I can tell that the bike has been cleaned up some ... so it may not really have been as well cared for as it appears in the photos but it is in nice shape. I just noticed today that the instrument cluster has a badge from a Midnight Spec. so the mileage is likely not accurate. The PO does not know how to reach the first owner but his name is on the title as the transfer was never fully completed ....????

[prometheus578]

well, he had to take the head off to eventually split the case. now... if it was me, I'd, in the process, also tear apart the valve train, etc, for a look-see... seeing how it was off, anyway.
Yes, camcaps are matched to the head they come from.
If it were me... what I'd do is get some plastigauge and check the caps. What I mean is... run a bead of plastigauge on the whole length of the head journal and the whole length of "a" cap. (making a ring... from top to bottom).(Or just run a ring of it around the camshaft) remove that cap and do the same with the other cap. Compare the plastigauge from both caps to the thickness of the plastigauge in the head portion of the journal. I would say the the cap who's plastigauge is closest to the plastigauge spread in the head portion is the one that belongs to that head.
Does this make sense?

[pggg]

Well the bike looks pristine, it's certainly not a basket case, hell even the battery holder is in good nick with no corrosion, the replaced oil ring(s) are likely perfectly OK and the cam caps will still be within acceptable tolerances even if mixed, the 80 head will have slightly larger valves, so that's OK, go with that, the clutch is no sweat, the middle drive unit will bolt straight on (hopefully within tolerances where the shaft connects) the outer gear case and components should be easy enough to sort, just a matter of patience and not rushing things and the clymer manual is excellent, so use it for reference for sure.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Wiz,

Congrats on your very nice looking basket case!! Like LoHo said, would be nice to know what the original problem was! Typing slowly tonight, just saw your reply to LoHo and Pat. Probably bent a bunch of valves with a botched cam chain tensioner adjustment, skipped tooth, etc!?

Looks like they used the Speedo from the 80, it only has the 85mph limit, the 79 had the 160mph speedo.

Well, where to start?? Might want to micrometer the cylinders to see if they are in spec? If not, then you will have some bigger decisions to make.....Bore to 1st oversize, use 1st OS rings on OEM pistons, or get the 1179 or 1196 big bore kit?! I think I would want to get the powerplant done first to ensure you have a viable engine, without that, everything else is mute!

You've stated you have the 80 head parts with the bigger valves. The cam caps are machined with the head, I would think you should be able to position one onto the studs and see if it will line up, and compare with the same cap from the other set. Perhaps you can see some fine galling lines in the head portion of the bearings, and match the pattern to the caps? The caps are labelled 1-2-3-4-5 and EX and IN, so you won't mix up that way?

You can also check the cam lift, I think the 79 had a higher lift vs. the 80, think it was recommended to use the earlier cams with the later head for performance boost!

There's a thread in the MISC section on what to look for in a neglected XS, it'll guide you as to what to check, refurb, etc., but Pat's provided a good list as well! Good Luck, keep us posted!
T.C.

[prometheus578]

"One time offer..."

As a Guru... one of the requirements is that one must do acts of kindness once in a while.
While that rule really galls me and is against my normal mean-spirited nature, I feel forced to comply.
I will now show my benevelent side, a side that I have worked hard to successfully keep hidden for years.
Wiz... because you're a new member... I, in all my magnificent and magnanimous splendor, will fly down to your humble abode next week and personally clean and adjust your carbs for you.
This, I do at great personal expense...
The usual means of "Guru Worship" (Beer) is Ok, but a fresh pot o' coffee will suffice, and is preferred.
Tuesday... if it's convienient for you, but later in the week is fine, too. (I just have to arrange things with the pilot of my private jet)
Yeah, right. Blah, blah, blah.
Here's the deal:
I'm flying down to Irvine and Costa Mesa next week for a coupl'a days of Kawasaki school and then, unfortunetely, a coupl'a days of 'forced' training on Vespa scooters. Temecula isn't really that far, what, an hour maybe?
If you need a hand, PM me with phone number and address, directions, etc.
(I won't have access to a computer while there, so if you want to communicate with me, there's only Sat and Sun, as I fly early Mon morn)( I also don't really know what my schedule is going to be while down there, yet, but I should have enough spare time to play a little)

[LoHo]

Well, if it was ME, I'd paint the tank again, then smoke a cigar while I stared at the pile of parts...but that's just me....

[planedick]

Kawa school...

Prom,
If you're going to be in Irvine, ya gotta visit me. My friend Wesely Ishi heads up the R&D department for Kawa's watercraft and 4-wheel stuff. I live just a few miles from Irvine and could arrange for you to have computer time if you like. Got a nice fast DSL setup here. If nothing else I could certainly get to Irvine to visit you.
Dick

[prometheus578]

Planedick... I've been in contact with RougeinLA, too about his carbs, etc. I had done a search last week for local XS'ers but somehow had missed you till Wildkat mentioned it to me.
(Gee, my dance card is filling quickly... but my partners are so homely)
PM me your phone number, etc.
Once I get settled I'll work out a schedule. Won't be as much fun as a "Surprise Visit", ala "Clockwork Orange", but should be amusing none the less.

[trbig]

On another note with the cam caps, put a dab of oil on the surfaces, and while your valves and buckets are out, just set the cam in place and screw down a cap and torque it. There is a spot on the cam for a wrench (Be carefull and don't contact the side of the head with the wrench) It should turn pretty easily. If you screw the sprocket to the cam it should turn by hand. If you feel it binding... try the other marked for the same location (1-5 with the arrow pointing to the right... facing the intakes) If you find that you really can't tell a difference, you could then try the plastigauge. When I swapped cams on my head, I tried using the caps that came with the cams... mistake. It was painfully obvious and took a MUCH greater effort to move the cam.

Tod

On second thought... I think that beautiful bike is WAY too much of a basket case... you need to just get rid of it. I'll be there next week to take it off your hands!

[trbig]

And Pro....

Wouldn't it just be easier for you to go to one place... and have your loyal subjects come to that place of worship to see you? Maybe bring sacrificial 12 ounce trinkets to adorn your hands with?? lol

Tod

[HobbyMan]

I shouldn't be the one talking, but if it was me, I would pull the engine and look at the work the PO did. If he split the cases, you don't know what has happened in there. Some people end up doing some wierd things. Sometimes they are just dumb, like myself. I speak from experience. It is better to be safe than sorry in my opinion. Then with the engine out, it should be easier to put all of the parts back on. Then check the wiring and all of the electrical goodies. Don't forget to do fuel system and carbs. Onced you are done, put everything back in the frame.

[prometheus578]

Ya know, TRBIG, I was just thinkin' the same thing.
The hotel I'll be staying at is the "Costa del Plenty" right on the coast.
Bring your carbs and mucho marguerita mix. Consuelo, the maid, has offered to work late, too.