V-max vs. Xs/Xj1100

[posthuman]

Well now I presume this is an ancient topic, but I'm new here...

With all the discusion about performance enhancement, I've been looking at V-max and wondering if I might have purchased this instead of the xj1100.

granted they appear to be more pricey, however they do seem to have quite a bit more grunt and ponies off the shelf.

what ya think?

Anyone have both for a point by point comparison?

come to think of it, if I put as much money into the *1100 as it costs for a v-max, I'd have something far and above, I presume.

[bandet01]

it depends how much money you want to put in to the xs or xj and you would have something that would perform as good as the vmax but you got to remeber they both are made be yamaha and the v max is the ulimate stoplight racer but i am sure you could make a xs1100 run as good as a vmax

[jetmechmarty]

In my case, I simply find the V-Max too small. I have to fold myself up to ride it. The XS/XJ fits much better.

[dragxs11]

Bandit's right.... but the max's looks could take some getting used to. It's a great performer though, and reliable. I think, if you wanna make an xs11 as fast as a v-max, your in for some work. Hopp the engine up, and your likely to need a barnett clutch and 2nd gear modded to handle it. Not bagging on the xs though. I still like the torque curve of an I-4. And it's humiliating to smoke harleys on a 26 year old Yamaha. Everyone know's Vmax's are tough to beat.

[bandet01]

you got that right a vmax is very tough to beat on a stop light race but i l,ike that looks of my old school orgimal muscle bike the xs1100 and in stock form the xs back in the day would turn high 11s all day long but mine is turn 13.2s right now on a slipping clutch and carbs that are out of tune so i am sure i could put it back in the 11s with the clucth and the carbs tuned up so how fast do you really want to go in the 1/4 mile or for that fact how fast you want to go top end because i have heard the vmax likes to try to pull the rider off at anything above 120

[DiverRay]

IMHO, the Vmax is a good bike, but the XS1100 is great for almost everything. It is the best bike for long rides, dusting HD's, and showing a zip-splat rider the world of torque.
A Vmax may be a third bike for me, but I think once I get my winter project done, I may not need the Vmax.
Ray

[mainlylinux]

The price of a used vmax vs the price of a used XS is usually a pretty big differential.

Stock for stock the vmax is going to blow the XS away pretty easy. Both bikes are way powerful enough to get hurt on if you ride crazy.

For a standard style bike, the XS is a good bargain. The KZ and GS's all command a huge price (the KZ's are really collectable, the GS motors end up in midget racing or drag racing). The XS11 is often overlooked in my opinion.

You also have XS11 dot com which is nice. I don't know what the vmax guys have.

I'm guessing you could put a small turbo on a stock XS and run a very small amount of boost and make it as fast as the vmax. Maybe 4 or 5 pounds of boost on pump gas.

Not sure how hard it would be to do a draw thru turbo setup, but it would probably be the simplest installation if you don't have fuel injection. Probably $2000 would cover it if you did the assembly and tuning yourself. You can pick up Garret T3 turbo's cheap. If your goal is to make 140 HP, the T3 off of a 2.2 Daytona did that stock @ 7lbs of boost, and they made millions of them. The intercooled versions could run pump gas and hit 15 pounds of boost, enough to put out over 200 ft/lbs of torque from a stock 4 banger. I'm thinking about going up to a local welding shop and asking how much he'd charge me to fab up an exhaust manifold and exhaust pipe to work with a T3. My brother in law owns a junkyard with quite a few turbo chryslers :-)

Of course nitrous would be cheaper yet, but that feels like cheating :-)

I've ridden a vmax and they are pretty quick. It sure feels a lot different than an xs does though. Either way, you'll have fun.

I'm sure if you turbo'ed the vmax it would probably put the hurt on mr. XS, but it would cost more doing it.

BTW, here's your point to point compare:

Shaft Drive: Both
Electronic Ignition: Both
4 Carbs: Both
Aftermarket parts: Vmax wins
Easy to work on: my bet is the XS
Tranny: Vmax wins
Purchase price: almost always XS is cheaper
Insurance: not sure, check your state
Theft potential: Vmax
Touring potential: XS
Outright acceleration: Vmax
Capable of cruising easily @ 80mph: both
Crazy complicated carb arrangement: Vmax
Crap pickup coil wire breakage problem: XS
Weight: XS should be lighter
Easy target for fuel injection: XS :-)
Classic inline 4 look that some like: XS
Finding a low mileage gem: Vmax
Finding a bargain basement deal: XS
Performance in the twisties: No idea...

Dan

[posthuman]

Thanks Dan

Ask far as power is concerned, I'm a bit disappointed in the XJ, considering the hype, however I'm sure It's not tuned to the 'nth degree, I'm slowly learning how to do this myself now...

Vmax is heavier, 14 lbs

Vmax 580 lbs. dry
Xj1100 566lbs dry

Power to weight is what matters (to me); I can presume people have done de-fatting projects on the XS XJ

If we can make this 14 lbs into 90 lbs we have an approximately 10 HP relative advantage.

As far as a low mileage gem, i got my Xj100 for $750 with 11k on it

As far as twistys, I've read similar problems and corresponding solutions for both, e.g fork stabilizer.

I like the way the XJ looks more than the Vmax, nice aggressive oldeskewl look, and simpler design.

So the only real question remains:


How much more power can be had
- for what price
- at what mechanical risk
- that we are happy with

with all the discussions pertaining experimenting and tweaking for power, sometimes with opaque or contradictory results, how do we find the ultimate cookbook i.e.

do valve adjust and carb tune

bolt on:


A: individual (brand name here) intake POTs with velocity stacks, do not use (brand name here).

B: 4 into 1 or 2 (good brand name / type here) header/pipes and do not use (poor brand name / type here).

C: Set floats here, unless foo.

D: Jet X and Y set to Z, +- foo, except bar.

F: Tweak setting X unless Y.

G: if money no object try (major modification or exotic part)


Mix well, enjoy


The Maxman thread has been great, but all that experimentation must have come to some definitive conclusions, what gets you in the ballpark, what fails completely etc.

[Pat Kelly]

Last year I was at the local Yamaha dealer and inquired about a V-Max. Owner said "next year (2006) will be more user-friendly". I told him I wasn't looking for user-friendly. He said "follow me" and we headed to the service dept.
Sitting there was a blown Max (year unknown), automotive style chrome air cleaner sticking out of the 'gas tank' (I know it's really the airbox).
Was a mean looking alien green and definately didn't look "user-friendly".

My XS has been spanked by a couple of Max's in the past, was fun anyway (I was hoping they'd miss a shift or two to give me a chance).

[mainlylinux]

Posthuman, probably one of your biggest gains per dollar spent (assuming you have a good pipe and not counting nitrous) would be:

Higher compression pistions (the highest you can run on the gas you want to use, higher would be better for performance)

Next would probably be cams.

Next would probably be some Mikuni smoothbore carbs.

If you could get a monster bore kit or stroker kit that would certainly help, but that's probably going to be really expensive.

Head porting done by someone who's done it before, preferably with a flow bench (Pretty port doesn't always = better flow)

At this point you've probably spent almost as much as you would have on a turbo install, assuming you buy all your parts from a really expensive company like turbonetics.

With the bigger cams you're moving the power up in the RPM band.

With a turbo you can work on midrange and top end power in your current powerband.

In the end you'll have more potential for power with the turbo, but you'll have a hard time hiding it.

You'll still want to look at fixing second gear before you beat on it, it probably won't hold otherwise.

Getting medium gains comes through jetting, pipe, and bore kit.

I don't know how much maximan is netting from his changes vs what his bike was getting when it was stock.

You're still looking at big money for anything, a bore kit runs in the hundreds of dollars for parts and machine work.

I think Stan's 11 is going to put up some decent numbers once he gets it to a dyno. He's got 100% control over the timing curve - he has no factory emissions or fuel saftey factors to worry about. Same goes for his fuel curve.

I want to get mine converted over to fully computer controlled timing as well, and dyno it. A wideband 02 sensor is $200 bucks, and I need one of those too.

[mainlylinux]

oops, I forgot to put stan's website link in:

http://www.hal-pc.org/~dhutch/

[posthuman]

Thanks mainlylinux0r

looks like drilling airbox, kerker 4 to 1 + jetting is the key for mild but noticable beginners trick


Forgot to add: loose 45 lbs off of self = about 5 HP and $free

I'm guessing one can pull 40 lbs off the bike by changing out small things like turn signals etc.

Anyone done a de-fatting project?

I'm pondering

lighter battery
aftermarket turn signals...

drilling out various parts

replacing some steel parts with aluminum, fenders with plastic...

carbon fiber exhaust system ?

[posthuman]

Ill start a de-fatting thread...

[dragxs11]

EBC brake rotors are much lighter than stock. But the quickest way to loose weight is an aftermarket exhaust.... if you don't already have one. Thats about all the help I can be.

[50gary]

I'm a serious cyclists as in Bicycling, I'm kinda of a "weight weenie" as they are called in bicycling. I weigh everything on my motorcycles as well. I weighed the front wheel assy. on my '78 XS11= 39.5# OUCH! From an engineering standpoint that's off the scale heavy. At even at a modest 60MPH that thing is generating tonnes more "weight" than a modern wheel assy. which is a more reasonable 26# I haven't yet weighed my rear wheel but it's got to be the same off the scale type of thing. I have built a highly modified XS650 that only weighs 340# for the street.
Cheers, 50gary