What did I do wrong?

[77crewcab]

Okay to start with my bike would start fine. I did the pickup coil fix and found two broken wires. removed the pickup coils to repair them. Soldered wires together (wires going to pickup coil lfrom the break ooked slightly coroded or possilby burned. Wires going to the harness looked good. both broken wires were on the same pickup coil which was in the top position. After the fix I had to move it to the bottom position for the wires to reach. Now the bike will not start. Turns over really slow even with a good battery hooked up to it. If I try to start it 3-5 times on the 6th try the starter will not turn at all. What could I have done that would do this? Where do I start to look for the problem. All I have messed with is the pickup coil and now it wont start.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Crew,

Moving the pickup coil to the opposite position causes it to pick up the OTHER pair of cylinder signals, essentially putting it 180 degrees out! You'll need to swap the wires from the PU coils going to the TCI, and then the PU's will be triggering the proper pair of plugs, and it should start and run! Also, there was a stat on the PU to reluctor gap, IIRC, ~.7mm!

As for the starter motor problem, check grounding straps, engine to frame, also starter motor to case, battery charged!
T.C.

[77crewcab]

Well I went to test some things and here are the results. Ign. Coils measure 1.9 and 2.1 ohms 29K and 32K ohms at the plug ends. The pickup coils measure 772 ohms and vary from 500 to over 1000 ohms when cranking. The starter is moving very slow even when jumping the terminals on the solenoid but when removed from the bike and tested with 12V will spin freely. All fuses check good with DVOM so I am at a loss. Before I did the pickup coil repair for the broken wires it was starting fine and now I am having troubles. The purpose for doing the repair to begin with was to locate a reason for eratic spark. Can anybody help? Would trying to get some other ing. coils and pickup coils that test good make a difference if the starter isn't spinning the bike enough to start? I have tried using 3 batteries that I know to be good and still the same results.

[77crewcab]

Sorry I didn't see your reply. I have the gap at .7mm. By switching the wires can I do that at the plug to the TCI and switch top for bottom on the plug?

[TopCatGr58]

Yes, Crew,

That was what I meant by swapping the wires, where they plug into the TCI, or even at the harness where they plug into that before getting to the TCI, but yes, you want to swap the top for bottom set one way or another! Good Luck.
T.C.

[77crewcab]

Okay I did the wire swapp for the TCI and still the starter doesn't want to spin. Is there anything else that can be checked for the starter other than having it rebuilt? The starter solenoid can be heard clicking when the starter button is pushed and yet the starter only does about a quarter turn. The engine spiins freely as does the starter when removed form the bike. I am thinking maybe the starter has just burned up. Is that likely on these bikes?

[TopCatGr58]

It's possible to wear out the brushes on the starter, but it could also be a bad solenoid not sending enough power to the starter. Have you tried jumping the solenoid or bypassing it with a thick jumper cable/wire just to see if it will turn faster with DIRECT power from the battery NOT going thru the solenoid? I'm pretty sure you can still get replacement brushes for the starters!
Did you verify a good ground contact where the starter mounts to the engine, it grounds thru the case and the bolts that hold it in place!
T.C.

[77crewcab]

I jumped the solenoid with the same result and also hooked it up to an extra battery to test both on/off the bike. It spins fast and free off the bike but with no resistance to the sping when on the bike it acts as though it doesn't have enough torque to spin the motor. Are these motors easy to rebuild at home or should it be something done by a shop?

[mro]

originally posted by 77crewcab
Are these motors easy to rebuild at home or should it be something done by a shop?

Have not taken an XS starter apart yet, but have delt with many others ove the years.

As TC said check that motor brushes are in good shape and move freely in there holder, and spring behind brush has good tension.

The area where the brushes make contact with the shaft (copper bars) is a commutator. If "burned" blackened where brushes make contact, will need to be cleaned. I use a "brush seater stone" to do this but can be done with 600/800 grit sand paper.

If the end of the shaft can be "wiggled" side to side more than a tiny bit bushings are worn and will make starter drag, bushings will need to be replaced.

If windings are burnt, I'd get another starter



mro

[randy]

77crewcab;

What TC said:

Did you verify a good ground contact where the starter mounts to the engine, it grounds thru the case and the bolts that hold it in place!

Also, the engine-to-frame ground is very suspect as well as the battery-to-frame ground. Bad grounds there can cause all kinds of problems, including erattic spark.

Generally speaking, bad dirty corroded connections are the cause of 90% of electrical problems on these bikes.

[77crewcab]

Well tried testing the starter on the bench again tonight and it looks like the starter is fried. Now with no load it wont spin at all. So I am going to look at the local cycle salvage yard for another starter. On a side note how hard would it be to add a kickstarter to an 80?

[TopCatGr58]

Sorry to hear that Crew.

How hard is it to split the cases?? That's what would be needed along with all of the kick starter parts....a real PITA. Just get another starter, and you'll be good to go. As long as the battery is good, then you can push start it, but if the battery drops below 10volts for any reason, then a kickstarter wouldn't do you any good, the TCI won't work with that low power!!
T.C.

[77crewcab]

Well I took the starter apart to see if things were bad there and everything looked good with the exception of some dust from the brushes. I cleaned it up really well and reassembled it. It would work on the bench. Then I put it back on the bike and tried to start it and it wouldn't turn. Checked voltage to the starter and got nothing. Hmmm? Started testing various locations on the bike and got anywhere from 0-8.8V Tested the battery again and only got 8.8V at the battery. Tried a different 12V battery that I hadn't tried yet and Vrooom started right up. Went back and tested the 3 batteries I had previously tried and all were below 10V. So I went and got another new battery for the bike. Still seems to have a very slight miss but is MUCH better. The pickup coil fix seems to have worked. Restested the coils and get 1.9 ohms on both sets of primaries which as I understand is just a little high. The secondaries I took the plug ends off and tested just the wires and got 15-15.5K The plug ends have horrible wide ranging ohm levels. I plan to get somemore ends from MikesXS and see if that fixes the miss. If not then I will get the coils and wires too. Now I just need to put it back together and take it for a test ride.