Primary chain drive

[oldnortonrider]

? .....anybody ever had a primary drive chain, start to slip, if they eventually got one worn enough, and/or stretched enough, with long-time wear and tear ?

[sixtysix]

You mean the 'HI-VO' chain? High Velocity primary chain that is. The answer is YES, there have been 3 or 4 peole with that problem, on this list in the last 5 years. Not common but, not impossible.

[strom]

On the secondary shaft there is a spring and some sort of safety thingie that skips if the pressure is too high.

The chain on my XS was stretched bout 1cm and had a link missing. Replaced it with a new one.

LP

[oldnortonrider]

Originally posted by strom
On the secondary shaft there is a spring and some sort of safety thingie that skips if the pressure is too high.

The chain on my XS was stretched bout 1cm and had a link missing. Replaced it with a new one.

LP

???????........you mean a "roller" ?; ? not a 'link' ; don't you ?
The pressure being "too high" ; would it still do it with a new chain?
This was a "well-used" motorcycle, before I got it, and "did a few things" to make it, a fine, 'going-down-the-road' scooter.
About 3 years ago, I did, replace the cam chain. Without pulling the head. Quite a learning experience, there.
Hmmmmm; ...got me curious about "the 'spring' and safety thing"......... .

[oldnortonrider]

Well, my above posting puts me to the back of the class for a while. >> .....sorry, Strom; no "rollers" on that chain >, all link plates. Dunno whut I wuz thinking of, to picture that with rollers.
The "occasional" slipping has occured, only in 1st gear. You really have to get on it.
Looking at the pictures in the manual(s) >> I don't know how that chain could slip.......unless it was stretched so bad, you'd almost have to hear it rattle.

[crunchbird]

Most likely it is your clutch. Many threads on this consumable.

[strom]

You were probbably thinking of the camchain... it's more roller-type.
The spring is under a cover next to the starter motor. It's pretty hard to get the cover off, since there are some oil lines in there to lube the bearing and an o-ring or two. The safety thingie looks like two U-s one against another, so if the pressure on the secondary shaft is too high, it compresses the spring and it skips. The primary chain would rattle if streched. At least the previous owner said it did, but I thaught he was talking bout the camchain. Turned out the camchain was new, primary chain had a lot of slack, so we replaced it. Got a new one with the bike. (50$ for the bike, 220 for the parts (new camchain, primary chain, 2nd gear cogs and fork,...)).

If it only happens under hard acceleration in 1st gear, I wouldn't worry bout it. That much. You might want to take that cover off anyway and check the bolt there on the secondary shaft to see it's still tight. You can do that during the winter. If you recently got the bike, take off the oil pan, clean it and check the primary chain for slack and missing links. You can inspect the gearbox/oil pump while you're at it. It's not necessary, but a good thing to do, at least you'll know what can you expect from a bike and maybe avoid a disaster in the future

LP

LP

[oldnortonrider]

".....If it only happens under hard acceleration in 1st gear, I wouldn't worry bout it......."


Strom; I appreciate all above info >> certainly not to be found in any manual.

I've had the machine for 8 years, and have fixed almost everything in that length of time. And have ridden it constantly during that period. I have a spare; a 79Standard, that I cannibalize "stuff" from, that's inter-changeable. Altho, the engine on the Standard is like new.

The Special, that does it's "skipping thing" (only under hard torque in 1st gear) has never skipped in any other gear(s); but I don't think I've ever put the "G-forces" to those other gears, the same as I've had to (in 1st).....kinda in some 'emergency' situations.

Inspection time (for the innards); yep, I can see that coming up. I've been wanting a good excuse to check those items, anyway.

"........check the bolt there on the secondary shaft to see it's still tight. You can do that ........"

Bears looking at, also.

That "double 'U-spring' " , information, has gotten my attention.........

[TopCatGr58]

Originally posted by oldnortonrider

The Special, that does it's "skipping thing" (only under hard torque in 1st gear) has never skipped in any other gear(s); but I don't think I've ever put the "G-forces" to those other gears, the same as I've had to (in 1st).....kinda in some 'emergency' situations.

Inspection time (for the innards); yep, I can see that coming up. I've been wanting a good excuse to check those items, anyway.

Hey there JC,
The symptoms you are describing are not your Hivo chain, it's your first gear dogs and slots, the same problem that people have spoken about for the 2nd gear problem, but it's affecting your first gear "First".

The same thing happened to me and my 81SH, 1st would slip/slam in and out of gear when I was trying to get on it with a bit of throttle, so I started going easy with it and using 2nd sooner, but after a short while, 2nd gear started presenting the same symptoms. That's when I parked it, back in '92, not knowing what it was going to take to fix it. Well, 9 years later, and after finding XS11.com, and the 2nd/1st gear fix info, I tore into the tranny, pulled the counter shaft gears, and put the dremmel fix to both 1st/4th combo and the 2nd/5th set of dogs and slots, put it all back together, and no more skipping!! That's what you will find when you tear into it.

Have fun, the 1st gear slots and dogs are more difficult to fix, the slots are solid, not open, and flat instead of rounded! Write me offline if you want more tips, and diagrams...I've drawn some using MS Paint showing where and how to grind, etc. I did this after Jean Luc asked for some help, since I've now done this fix on both my 81 and an 82XJ.

[strom]

OK... checked the microfiche...

http://xs1100.vinden.nl/Technical/Pr...andrijving.htm

Numbers 5 and 6 are the U thingies I was talking about, no. 7 is the spring. It doesn't look like it, but it is.
One mistake... the bolt is on the other side.

To test my theory is quite simple... put in in 5th gear while standing still and accelerate, putting pressure to that part. If it skips, that's it, if not, it's 1st gear cogs, dogs and stuff. You should be able to do it without dismembering the whole engine. But if the spares bike runs, just swap engines.

LP

[oldnortonrider]

Strom;.....I will do the "5th gear stress test" . And , the microfiche 'splains a lot. I saved that link in a file.
TopCat; ....good explanation about my "likely-to-be" dog & slot problem. About two years ago, is when this first started; I originally didn't want to feel that it would be a "dog/slot" problem, thinking, if it was, it would eventually jump out of gear and stay out. Which it never did. Now it does sound like it can be a "dog&slot" thing, and not go out of gear, or bend a fork.
I do very much appreciate your offer, for me to contact you, for me to get the diagram. Which I most likely will need, and would surely want to have >> in order to perform the dremel treatment.
Sometime back, oftentimes, I had "looked at" the XS11.com "transmission fix" tip(s), and was prone to be in the "procrastination" mode, to do this.
Also, like Strom sez; I could just swap engines. But, my eventual goal is to have 2, maybe 3 XSs, all going, running at the same.