Bringing the dead to life.

[Hired_Goon]

A bit of an intro and background on my bike down here in Oz

Top site here and I've been reading and lurking a lot since I bought an XS1100E.

Sadly she had been sitting for quite a few years without running. Carbs caked with crud, brake cylinders also stuck. The good news is she has been stored inside all this time so most stuck parts are just dried up fluid and not rusted.

The problem I have is because it has been sitting so long the rings seem to be sticking causeing some cylinders not to fire.

Carbs took me three days to triple clean.
Checked coils and have spark on all four.

My method to unstick the rings was to get her fired up, warm it up and drop ATF down the bore and let it cool. Repeat daily.

First time I fired it up it was only running on cylinder 2. after a few minutes cylinder 4 kicked in and it started smoking(stuck oil rings?)

Put some ATF oil down the pots last night and left it to soak .

Did a wet compression test to see how things are holding up.

1 150
2 210
3 230
4 230

Ran it after the wet test and after the smoke cleared I tested the header temps and found 1 had been firing.
Hopefully tomorrows comp test will see a better reading on 1.

Now my questions.

210-230 compression seems a bit high to me. what is the norm for a wet test.

Cylinder 3 is still not firing even with good compression. I've checked resistance in the coils and clipped 5mm off the end of all leads. New plugs as well. Any other suggestions for me to try? I've also done a quick carb syc to eliminate carbs out of whack.

Anybody have a pic of the timing setting? Eg" vacuum advance adjustable part. She's not running well enough to get a timing light on it yet and both my lights only have car type connections on them.


Sorry about the long winded post but I've tried to answer all the questions before you ask them.

For those interested a pic of the old girl is Here

Feedback most welcome.

[turbopete]

When I got my XJ it had been stood at least 6 years, and the carbs were so gummed-up the floats were seized on their pins and the slides were stuck also. I usedcarb cleaner, and cellulose thinners to free them up. It took me a whole day to get them working. I've since done 7000 miles on them with no issues.Two things I found that you might not have figured out yet:

1. When I pressed the emulsion tubes out of the bodies the outside of the tubes were all crusted up and the side holes were blocked

2. The holes in the float bowls that the little brass posts poke into have a tiny jet inside them - it's the devils own job to get them cleaned out properly. I had a set of old "jewellers" screwdrivers - the all-metal silver type with the swivel top - I got on of the smaller ones and ground the point to the thinnest taper I could then ground a small flat on one side of the taper , and used that to carefully clean out the jets - took me a long while to get all the crap out and a whole tin of carb cleaner too.

You have enough compression to make that cylinder run. If you have a spark then that leaves only the fuel as a likely culprit.

[Hired_Goon]

Thanke turbopete.

I did cleen the emulsion tubes and made sure all 16 holes in each tube were clean.

The float bowl jets I nearly forgot but realised as I was reassembling. All four were blocked but I poked them clean with a strand of copper telephone cable. Followed by a good flush with a tin of carb cleaner. They are clean.


I also ride an XJ550 so I am very familiar with the ins and outs of the Mikuni carb.

I'm not discounting fuel but each carb was individually cleaned and each jet and gallery was meticulously cleaned and flushed. But the nature of the beast means I may have missed something. Hope not. I hate doing a job twice.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey there "Goon",

You mentioned the main jets, but not the PILOT circuit!? Did you verify that you can get flow from the Pilot jet tower(next to the Main Jet...btw, there's a small tunnel joining the two towers), thru to the front pilot jet screw opening, and then down into the carb throat thru one of those 3 little holes in the top of the carb throat infront of the butterfly? Are you sure the pilot screw tip isn't broken off in there, which would cause a clog and not allow fuel to flow in the pilot circuit?! Also, the pilot jet tower is supposed to have a plug over it, IIRC, a large screw vs. a rubber plug since it's supposed to draw it's fuel thru the main jet tower via that shared tunnel!

Those comp values are way too high!! Are those PSI, or some metric scale?? Normal for stock NEW is 142 + ~10. After a big bore kit with higher comp pistons, I got 185, so yours do seem "Xsive" !

Like Pete said, IF you are sure you have spark, and good comp, then that leaves fuel! BTW, do you have or can you get Marvel Mystery Oil down in Ozland? Might try that instead of ATF for trying to unstick the rings!? Have you pulled the float bowl off of # 3 and verified that there's gas in it? Also, did you inspect the fuel tees before putting them back on? Folks have cleaned their carbs, and had corrosion blocking one side of the "T" so that carb wouldn't get gas from the fuel line!
Keep us posted! HTH!?
T.C.

[Geezer]

The compression is too high because some of the space is filled with oil. You can only get and accurate test after you fire it up and burn it off. Also a hot compression test is more accurate than a cold one.

Odds are you're not getting gas to the cylinders that aren’t firing. Follow the other's advice and go through the carbs again.

Geezer

[OzzieinXS]

Gidday HG,
I can scan and send you what I have on timming. Private message me and I'll email it to you. Also maybe we can exchange info on obtaining parts in Oz, I'm in Vic and not had much luck hunting things down, but have found a few bits and pieces.

David
78E

"Go the Swans"

[Hired_Goon]

Thanks all, some good suggestions. I actually thought of checking the bowls on number three for fuel about 3am this morning and was tempted to get out of bed and do it then.

Will check this morning and do another compression check dry. I'm not too worried about the high compression, the guage(yes PSI) is a cheap one and I wouldn't count on it's accuracy.

I'm also not discounting that it has a big bore kit either as I've notived a few things that point towards the engine being rebuilt. Eg, Spotlessly clean under timing cover after 47000 km on the clock.

Will recheck plug lead and carby and keep you posted.

Cheers
HG

[Hired_Goon]

Bugger, five minute window for edit expired.

No TC MMO is not available down under.

All passages in the carb were flushed with a tin of carb cleaner to make sure fluid came out somewhere else. T's definately clean. Plugs on the bottom of mine have metal crush washers.

Interesting that you mention the "shared" tube between emulsion and pilot jet as I didn't notice(or clean) any galleries between the two. Maybe that is a good place to start looking.

[mro]

float bowl gasket new???

Did you replace the gaskets when you cleaned the carbs.
If so, new gasket could be covering one hole too many...



mro

[Hired_Goon]

No, didn't replace the gaskets although I am on the hunt for a new set.

Spent all afternoon stripping no 3 spark plug cap due to corrosion but now have a bright blue spark but no fire on that pot.

Lost the fire on 1 again so now down to running on 2 and 4. Not matched pairs on the coils so not likely a problem there.

Pulled the carbs this morning and checked a few more channels for blockage but they were all clear.

Almost 100 percent certain fuel is the problem but the plugs smell of fuel and slightly damp when pulled after running.

Getting some but maybe too much. All the float levels are set to standard specs and don't flood.

Tomorrow I'm going to put some injector cleaner thru the carbs, Worked a treat on my 550 so hopefully will clean out anything in those hard to reach galleries that may be giving me grief.

One thing I've noticed is every time I pull the carbs and put them back on at least one will start spilling fuel till I give it a tap. Does this happen to anybody else?

[pggg]

Try swapping round coil wires, coil connecters and spark leads to see if cyl 3 kicks.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Goon,

That carb that spills fuel sounds like it's too full, and that the float valve isn't sealing properly, or that float is sticking on it's pin! And so it could be flooding that cylinder, not enough necessarily to flow out the intake but enough to throw off the balance between it and the other carbs!

Also, after cleaning the spark plugs, right before trying to run the bike again, put them in the oven for a bit to help warm them up, can help them to start to fire easier, just use oven gloves to handle them!

Focus on your pilot circuit, from the pilot jet tower, thru to the pilot screw(top of front of carb), and then the 3 orifices just under the pilot screw location in the throat of the carb when you are using the injector cleaner?? Spray carb cleaner?? !

T.C.

[Hired_Goon]

Well, time for an update. Was allowed back out in the shed after finishing painting the kitchen.

Pulled and stripped the carbs again. Rechecked/cleaned/poked/flushed every hole I could find. Followed with a good blow through from the compressor.

While reassembling I checked all jet sizes to ensure everything matched up.

Mains 137.5
Pilots 180
Emulsion tube 226

Hang on, two emulsion tubes are 226 and the other two are 338. Now I don't begin to understand what these numbers mean but I know enough to know they should be the same.

I take full blame for these differences as when I first pulled the carbs to bits the sliders were so gummed up it took a bit of brute force to move them even ofter a 48hr soak.
Also damaged one of the threads for the jet on one of them.

In doing so I damaged two of the tubes. I replaced these two tubes with two from a spare set of carbs I picked up for 20 bucks presuming they were the same.

So this prompted a strip of all four tubes from the spare set and while doing so I noticed the needles were totally different. My set was noticably tapered towards the tip and the spare set appeared thick all the way to the bottom with a blunt end. Now I'm presuming the needle and tube may make a difference to the idle circuit?

Long story short reassembly included 4 "spare" tubes and needles/sliders as the diaphragms were all good.

Whether it was these tubes or the extra clean, I'll never know, but after fitting the carbs she fired straight up.
A quick sync and she was running smoothly by herself. Still needs the colourtune put in to set the mixture right but she's definately running on all four now. Quick blip of the throttle and it's instant 6 grand.

Pops a bit as the revs drop back but that is probably due to standard jets while having pods and 4-1.

All in all I'm very happy and a big thank you all for listening to my troubles and offering great advice.

Feel free to whack in a few comments on the dumbarse who didn't check the sizes.

[Hired_Goon]

Ok, problems are not over. Got home fro work today and went to start the bike. full choke and it pulls about 6000 revs. Still struggle on warm up. Once warm it idles roughly at 1200 RPM but wants to die. Can't screw the idle up any more as it is screwed in to the max.

Put the colourtune in each plug hole and noticed it was only burning properly at low revs on cylinder two. The other three only got a flame around 1500 revs.

Strange. So I got the starter fluid out and sprayed a bit around the boots. Picked up on the non firing ones. All becoming clear now.

Pulled carbs, removed all 4 boots. (they were tight enough)
Expecting a few cracked gaskets as I've had that problem before but was not prepared for what I found.

No bloody gaskets at all!!!!!
Number two was only sealed by the dirt and crud built up around it.

Now I have some petrol resistent gasket paper(2mm) in the shed so will cut some out tonight.

Question for anybody, Should I put a thin smear of gasket sealant on them before refitting. Is it safe or a no-no given the head temps.

TIA
HG

[GNEPIG]

.. using 320 sand paper, WD40 and a piece of glass, i just resurface the gasket area of my intake manifolds and use yamabond[or 3bond 1104, same stuff] to seal the intakes on my bikes.. i use no gaskets at all. done right this works very well. does'nt get to hot on the intake side, the air/fuel flow helps keep things cooler.
hope this helps