Timing indicator plate

[osmosis4b]

another tough question...

Is ther a way to tell what is "TDC", for this bike. (is it like a Chevy 350, when #1 is TDC, the harmonic balancer is is on "o")

Also, at TDC, where is the timing indicator supposed to be?


The reason I ask is during the pu coil wire change, the timing indicator cover did not seem like it was the correct position, so I didnt bother marking it when I removed it. I did the the cam chain adjustment(before the PU coil incident), and when I tried to repeat it today, the chain got much noisier. I repeated it a few times, and I wonder if the cover is 180 out. any suggestiong?

[randy]

Os,

The cover can't be 180 out. It only goes on one way, it's keyed. When I did my restoration i needed to re-index the pointer. Here's what I did.

Loosen #2, 3 and 4 plugs. Take#1 plug out, use a wire coat hanger to feel the piston at TDC. rock the crank left or right of TDC and you'll feel the piston stop moving at TDC. There are a few degrees of rotation where the piston is not moving up or down as the crank comes over the top. You need to find the center of that arc. That's where your "T" mark should line up with your pointer.

Re-check with a timing light. The "F" should line up with the pointer

[osmosis4b]

Randy, it did seem to be "keyed" but I think mine has a "v" shaped notch on the black steel center flange on the back of the silver timing indicator plate. That V can be put onto the distrubutor shaft either the correct way, or 180 out, but no other way.
Maybe I need to re-eval it.
I did do the check with plug 1 out, using a drinking straw, you can feel the piston come up, top out, and is starting its downstroke by a few mm when the "c" is aligned with the indicator.

So how does the cam chain adjustor work exactly. I tried to do it again, and the bike is getting noisier each time. It is reallly loud on the hiway. Nothing seems like it is happening when I loosen the lock nut, and cam adjustor bolt. And then re-tighten them, it seems to go back to the same spot. I tapped lightly on the protrusion, in case it was like a sping loaded piston pushing a tensioner, that might be gummed up. Nothing. Gave the two allen head bolts a turn in the loosen direction, "oil waterfall", so I re-tightened. How can you tell that there is room left on the tensioner and it does not need replaced?

[DiverRay]

Os,
HOW TIGHT DID YOU TURN THE LOCK BOLT!!!
I would set the bike on the center stand, align the "C" mark, and loosen the lock nut and bolt on the adjuster. If you pull the bolt all the way out, you can check for aluminum in the threads. clean out the threads the bolt screws in to, and check for missing aluminum.
If everything looks OK, put it back together and tighten the bolt to specs, about 5 Ft.Lbs, I think. If the hole looks bad, you will have to pull the adjuster and repair the threads.
Ray

[osmosis4b]

I only tighted gently each time, (no torque wrench for this app), and I did remove the bolt for insprection. It looked like a bolt, no visible signs of damage, I did not notice aluminum shavings either, would this come from my case? If I tightened the bolt a little more, would it push on the tensioner more, or is the tensioner spring loaded, and the bolt just locks it in place after you loosen it and the spring re-tensions the tensioner against the chain, (like on most timing belt type vehicles) There are quite a few turns left on the adjustor bolt before it is screwed completely into the case.
p.s. It was on the center stand

[wingnut]

Chain

The tensioner is spring loaded. That’s why you set the engine at the C mark which is the position that the chain is suppose to have the most slack in it. When you loosen up the lock nut and bolt the spring pushes the plunger and removes the slack from the chain. Make sure you are rotating the engine counterclockwise to the C mark This is done static, Engine not running. I have read that some folks have had the plunger sticking on them so they removed the assembly and cleaned it up before doing the adjustment. Good Luck

DJ

[osmosis4b]

Wingnut, thanks...That is exactly how I thought it worked, so tightening it more doesn't matter, it just locks it in place harder.

However, the information on the tech tips post for this procedure says to "Remove the engine case cover over the timing plates and use a wrench to manually rotate (clockwise) the engine until the timing pointer aligns with the "C" on the timing plate."
If I turned it COUNTERCLOCKWISE like you mentioned would it loosen/slack the chain more, or would it pull the chain tighter on the adjustor side? (keep in mind I am asking ignorantly, I dont know what I am doing) It seems like if the crank is being turned CC it would want to pull a straightline on the chain with the upper side, and the slack would be on the back side of the engine. Wouldn't you get the most slack from turning it in the clockwise direction to a degree or two past "C", the turn it CC back to "C".

[trbig]

Rotating it clockwise puts the tightened side of the chain to the back of the motor. The crank is pulling the chain from the back side, and "pushing" it up towards the cams. If you go slightly past the "C", then go back counterclockwise, you're taking the slack out of the side you want to adjust, and puting to the back side of the chain... hence a looser chain. This was covered pretty well in this thread...

Cam Chain Adjustment

Another thing you might check, is do your adjustment normally.. loosen the screw to let the spring hold tension against the chain, then tighten it, lock it down, and remove the tensioner from the bike. With it off of the bike, measure from the gasket surface to the end of the rubber pad that goes against the chain guide. After that, loosen the screws again and see if it pops out still. If it moves very little to none at all, your chain has stretched too much. I don't know what the difference in the measurements should actually be to be within tolerance, but if it barely moves, change your chain.

Tod

[randy]

I did do the check with plug 1 out, using a drinking straw, you can feel the piston come up, top out, and is starting its downstroke by a few mm when the "c" is aligned with the indicator.

Os,

Did you follow my directions? Top out the piston, loosen the pointer screw and re-index the pointer to the "T" mark. Check with timing light for "F" mark.

After you're sure you've got the timing plate right, THEN adjust your cam chain.

[osmosis4b]

randy, will check this after work...I assume checking for "f" mark iswith engine running, timing light lead on plug wire #1?

[Ken Talbot]

Read and follow the procedure carefully, Os, it is tried and true. If you overshoot the C mark by even just a few degrees and turn it back to the mark, you defeat the whole purpose and will not get a proper adjustment. Maintaining tension on the back side of the chain is critical to getting the adjuster to take out all of the slack on the front (loose) side.

[osmosis4b]

it is becoming more clear with every post...

[osmosis4b]

So I have done this procedure enough times I can do it in my sleep, and it isn't any better. I dont even want to take it off the center stand becase the chain is clattering so hard. It is so loud you can distinctly hear it over the exhaust. I am going to have my morning coffee, and try to remove and clean the cam adjuster cover. Any warnings or cautions before I start? Is there anything that can fall off or detach inside the case?

Randy- the timing plate was in the right spot.

[randy]

Os,

It is possible to have a busted tensioner

[Geezer]

Originally posted by randy
Os,

It is possible to have a busted tensioner

Or a stuck one. It's very common on XS11's for the plunger shaft to expand where the lock bolt hits it and jam in the bore. Since they always leak, I take the tentioner apart and make sure it moves freely before reassembly.

Geezer