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1979 Yamaha XS400 Cold Starts

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  • 1979 Yamaha XS400 Cold Starts

    Aaarg!

    Help - I cannot for the life of me get my lil' 400 to start up on these cold mornings - esp after a good night's rain (and it's not even that cold!!). I am getting spark and fuel delivery, but no go. Any suggestions on what factors are involved, or general cold starting suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

    I usually close up the butterfly's overnight (this bike doesn't get to sit under cover over night, i know, it's probably just mad at me) and after opening the flys in the morning, I lean the bike to the right and left and hold it for a while (dirt biker told me this tip - might be unecesary for street bikes?), hold open the throttle for a while to let the fumes float around. Then I open the choke all the way and, well, I haven't gone after the starter marbles yet, but I usually try five short cranks with the starter button to get the engine turning around. If that doesn't work (and since the winter's come along it hasn't - worked occaisionally this summer, marbles notwithstanding) I then go to the kickstarter. I start with the throttle closed and after about five to ten kicks I will usually get the headlight on and a backfire or two, sometimes through the carbs, sometimes through the pipes, sometimes real loud and sometimes a little fart. If it doesn't go I then try kickstarting with the throttle wide open. As a last resort I run start it, popping it into second. This usually works, but no luck this week. The headlight comes on, and it will chug for a little bit as I push, but no Vroom Vroom. Unfortunately the nearest hill is a couple of blocks away... Any suggestions?

    On a related note, my idle is not so stable. Sometimes it will sit and idle steadily while I put on my gloves and gear, sometimes it will breathe a little and die after a while. Mostly I just keep bumping the throttle when it starts to fade below 1000 (1200 is idle spec.) I have recently set the valve clearances and statically timed the points, cleaned the carbs some - nothing fancy, compressed air and carb cleaner. The diaphragms had no holes/tears and I balanced/synchronized them. I thought maybe turning the idle screws in a quarter turn might help, but I didn't notice much change. Also, the idle sometimes doesn't want to settle down from advance, it'll stay around 35-4000, I'll start to slip it it into first to bring it down. I recently took apart the ATU and retorsioned the spring and relubed the parts. Every other week or so I'll use a little of Redlines Fuel additive and roll around the neighborhood for a half hour or so keeping the RPM's under 3000 to work the pilot and main jets.

    Should I just go back to square one?

    The bike has some 24k, hasn't had a top end job - doesn't need it I don't think - and was otherwise running fine a couple of weeks ago when I tore it down I-5 from Oakland to Palm Springs at about 80 most of the way. I suspect the farting through the carbs is the timing, I just got a Gunson Timestrobe, so maybe that will help to fine tune the setting. Maybe I just need to advance the timing a little from spec? It is a 25 year old motor... Any tips or guidelines on advancing the timing would be appreciated.

    On a positive note, my '79xs1100sf is running great!

    Thanks Everyone!
    -Patrick Kennedy

    p.s. I have been using a synthetic blend for oil. I have seen that people in this forum recommend against it for the 1100's - should I follow the same logic for the 400 and switch to regular oil?
    Your Mileage May Vary

  • #2
    Re: 1979 Yamaha XS400 Cold Starts

    I've never worked on an XS400, but I can't help but think this little extract might be the crux of your problem:

    Originally posted by mixelpix

    I have recently.... cleaned the carbs some - nothing fancy, compressed air and carb cleaner.....
    All it takes is air, fuel, and spark, and it sonds like you've got lots of air and spark. Perhaps this XS little brother could do with a good triple cleaning.
    JAT...
    Ken Talbot

    Comment


    • #3
      Hmmm

      My little XS250 HATED the damp.

      Try WD40 on the coils and odd wires that relate to ignition
      XS1.1 sport - Sold June 2005 :-(
      Guzzi 850
      Z1000

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi Ken,

        I feel really dumb asking this, but, "triple' cleaning? Do you mean I should clean the fuel delivery system since the spark and air are working? I have an inline fuel filter from the carb to the tap. The diaphragm in the petcock seems to be working so I am pretty sure I am getting good fuel delivery - I also tested the mix w/colortune plugs and the color was blue. Also, the needles and jets didn't show signs of wear and the slides were smooth. What do you suggest? Boiling? Yama-clean?

        Thanks!

        -Patrick
        Your Mileage May Vary

        Comment


        • #5
          Hard Starting Cold

          I'm not familar with an XS400 but your problem certianly sounds like it is choke/fuel enrichment circuit problems to me. Cold starting in cool/cold weather requires a lot moe fuel. If the enrichment is not taking place or at least not very much you will have trouble getting the engine to fire.
          Trace your choke cable/control down the carbs and ensure that something is moving besides the slack in the cable. A few shots of WD40 and some thumb assistance on the stuck/seized components likely will spove your proble.
          Ken/Sooke
          78E Ratbyk
          82 FT500 "lilRat"
          92 ZX11 Temptress.

          Comment


          • #6
            Actually, Patrick, 'triple cleaning' is a reflection that many XS owners have found it has taken them three tries to get their carbs clean. There are owners out there who have stripped their carbs down and cleaned them as many as 10 (and more!!) times before they finally got every critical passage and tiny orifice clean. Once these old carbs get plugged up, it can be very difficult to get them properly and thoroughly clean. That's why I pick up on your term 'cleaned the carbs some' as being one possible source of the problem. Just for a lark, type triple clean into the search tab at the top of the page and check out a few of the articles. Good luck
            Ken Talbot

            Comment


            • #7
              [QUOTE]Originally posted by Ken Talbot
              [B]Actually, Patrick, 'triple cleaning' is a reflection that many XS owners have found it has taken them three tries to get their carbs clean.

              Thanks Ken. Duly noted.

              On a related note, I have been considering new ignition coils for this bike. May or may not help the problem with starting and idling... Can anyone recommend a good brand? Caveats to watch out for? Thanks again everyone.

              -Patrick Kennedy
              Your Mileage May Vary

              Comment


              • #8
                my personal experience

                i had an enduro that did this sort of thing and the problem was that i had snapped the woodruff key that holds the flywheel. This caused the flywheel to turn slower than the engine and backfiring through the carbs and pipes. Take off the flywheel cover, put the bike in first and see if you can turn the flywheel with your hands. If you can you will need to pull the flywheel and replace the key.
                "Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited; imagination encircles the world." -Albert Einstein

                Comment


                • #9
                  Patrick,
                  Try a can of "Berryman's" or "Seafoam" in the tank. It should help clean most of the gunk, without a lot of work. It's only about $5.00, and a good start.
                  If that does not work, then it's into the carbs!!! I think just pull them, dissassemble the parts, and CLEAN with a good carb cleaner. Then put back together, and sync.
                  Just my $0.02
                  Ray
                  Ray Matteis
                  KE6NHG
                  XS1100 E '78 (winter project)
                  XS1100 SF Bob Jones worked on it!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The carbs on the 400 (at least on my '81 SH) are exactly the same as the ones on my '80 1100 Special. Just a few minor diferences. Be sure to clean the enrichment passages that are inside the float bowls. I couldn't get one side to run on mine forever until I finally (&$^%$^) got that damn pasasge clean.

                    No amount of any solvent would get through there until I worked a long peice of wire in and broke the plug of gunk free.

                    But yeah, I'd say go thru the carbs again. Pay close attention to the choke passage on the bowls and the pilot and Idle mixture passages. they are really narrow and get clogged easily. It will never idle right until that's done.

                    It took me cleaning the carbs on the 400 twice before they were right, and 3 times on the 1100.

                    Good luck!!
                    80 XS1100SG
                    81 XS400SH

                    Some men miss opportunity because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. - Thomas Edison

                    A Few Animations I've Made

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Plugged

                      You said everything was alright before you cleaned the carbs. Did you change out the bowl gaskets with new? I've read somewhere that some of the gaskets out there have one of the ports blocked. When my new gaskets showed up I had to punch out the hanging chads as it were to open all of the passages.
                      wingnut
                      81 SH (Daily Ride)
                      81 650XJ (Brother in laws bike, Delivered)
                      81 650XJ Jane Doe (Son's Ride)
                      82 750XJ Project bike (Son in law's future ride)
                      81 XS 400

                      No man has a natural right to commit aggression on the equal rights of another; and this is all from which the laws ought to restrain him.”

                      A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have.

                      Thomas Jefferson

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        If this bike was a 2-stroke bike I would be lead to believe by the symptoms that you have weak fire and or low compression.
                        My old endure acted like this when the points were getting pitted and condensor getting weak. When the rings were wearing out it was also hard to start due to low compression.

                        Have you done a compression check? When you set your timing how did the points look? Were they pitted, or did they have an outer lip? How about the condensors? When were they last replaced?

                        Just a thought
                        Do'Lee
                        XS1100SF "Green Hornet"
                        (1) XS1100LG "Midnight Dream" Restoration has begun.
                        (2) XS1100LG "Midnight Madness" Waiting to be next
                        (5) multi partsters for bobber "Ruby Red II" On the list.
                        SR500H "Silver Streak"

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