Someone tell me I am nuts

[Crusty Snippets]

Thinking of buying a 68 Norton 650.
Am I losing it? But I do have a history with these bikes. My new 71 Commando was a piece of junk IMO.
But I did do well at the track with a very much modified 68 Dunstall Norton.
That bike had its roots in the 650. The 650 was made into the 750 Atlas which was the basis for the Dunstall. The Dunstall was supposed to be very fast, but compared to what my bike was doing in the end, it was quite slow.
We basically changed just about everything on the bike in the end.

So it is a bit of nostalgia happening. The Norton will have similar performance to my 83 Yamaha Seca 400. And it should be able to accept the sidecar.

Unkle Crusty

[MarkD]

Crusty-I will say you are not nuts. I'm an old man, and I dream of getting one or two of the old bikes I once owned. You cannot tell me a Norton 650 is worse than a 1968 Suzuki X6 Hustler, or a 1968 Harley Rapido 125. The Nortons are classy. Temperamental, but classy.

[motoman]

Always thought the Norton as a classy scoot........specially the 750 Commando when it came out.
Tempermental.........650 Matchless comes to mind

[TomB]

The 650's were the SS weren't they?

Bit rare I think, the 99's were 600's

[jetmechmarty]

Are you talking about taking and old bike to the show and/or puttering around the neighborhood?



Great! Low maintenance and reliability won't be there. I love old stuff just the same.

[fredintoon]

Thinking of buying a 68 Norton 650.
Am I losing it? - - -
So it is a bit of nostalgia happening. The Norton will have similar performance to my 83 Yamaha Seca 400. And it should be able to accept the sidecar.

Hi Unkle Crusty,
no way are you losing it! If anything, you are finding it again.
A Norton sidecar outfit is entirely appropriate to your age and condition.
It can't fall over and it's reliable if you don't want to go on long rides.
Just about perfect for trailering to vintage rallies.
BTW, what chair will you be hanging onto it?

[Crusty Snippets]

Norton

Mark D. thanks for agreeing with me. You sound like wise person.

Tom B. Yes I believe it is an SS. I am more interested in the smaller engine with the single carb for: reliability and less vibration. The more horsepower you make with these engines the sooner they will blow up.

Jetmech. Yes to both questions. Maybe a few shows and putter around my Island. It is a no chrome model like the one in your pic. Would be a fine weather bike only. Have the 400 Seca for crappy weather. Seca is almost ready to roll.

Fred. I have an Inder chair that gets bolted to Yami the XS11. Bought the chair new but it needs some work to straighten the wheel camber. I can switch the collector plate between bikes here. Would ride the Norton first, then maybe try the chair.

As an aside: I am getting wrist surgery on Wednesday. After a layoff I should be able to keep riding without my hands tingling. Right wrist first, left wrist later.

Unkle Crusty

[fredintoon]

Fred. I have an Inder chair that gets bolted to Yami the XS11. Bought the chair new but it needs some work to straighten the wheel camber. I can switch the collector plate between bikes here. Would ride the Norton first, then maybe try the chair.
As an aside: I am getting wrist surgery on Wednesday. After a layoff I should be able to keep riding without my hands tingling. Right wrist first, left wrist later.

Hi Unkle Crusty,
I Googled Inder sidecar; ain't they a tad light and flimsy to hang onto an XS11?
But WTF, sidecars ain't science; it's more like an art-form.
A while back my son bought a Spirit of America Spirit Eagle chair from list member Wally Frei.
Wally claimed his XS11 would fly that thing like a flag. It also seemed a tad light for the XS750 we first attached it to. Works nice on it's XS650 though.
Good luck with the wrist job.
Hopefully your wrists will not have to work as hard if you can ease the lever pull. See the posts about hydraulic clutch actuators and my thoughts about lessening the XS11 clutch lever effort and using the hydraulic gadget on a front drum brake Britbike.

[Crusty Snippets]

Inder

Hi Fred.
The Inder car is actually quite sturdy, at least my one is.
The mounts could be better, but I will work on those. The main problem on mine was the crappy work machining the shafts, and the installation of the axel bearing, and the swing arm bearing. Those have been fixed. The other problem is the camber of the wheel. I will get that fixed soon. As in, as soon as I can get back working again.

Unkle Crusty

[fredintoon]

Hi Fred.
The Inder car is actually quite sturdy, at least my one is.
The mounts could be better, but I will work on those. The main problem on mine was the crappy work machining the shafts, and the installation of the axel bearing, and the swing arm bearing. Those have been fixed. The other problem is the camber of the wheel. I will get that fixed soon. As in, as soon as I can get back working again.
Unkle Crusty

Hi Unkle Crusty,
is the s/c wheel leaning in? When Norm Pottruff modified my Spirit of America American Spirit sidecar by removing the stock wheel and axle
then grafting on the stub axle, braked hub and road wheel from a Honda Civic
(Norm REALLY believes that sidecars should have brakes; any s/c that goes through his shop gets one fitted)
he deliberately welded up the swingarm to have the s/c wheel lean in a bit, he claims it helps them steer straight.
So I wouldn't sweat a little s/c wheel lean in.
Mind you, if your Inder started out with the wheel upright and it's starting to sag, yeah, best it gets fixed.

[Crusty Snippets]

Camber

Mine is leaning in too much. Agree brakes on rig are a good idea but we are stopping okay. Could be a problem with an older bike with drum brakes.
I have to lay off any strenuous work for at least two weeks. Then not sure how much work I can do.
After 30 hours I am doing okay, using big finger of right hand to help type.
No pain, so no drugs, which I am happy with.
Will likely ride the Suzuki which has easier to operate controls.

Unkle Crusty

[fredintoon]

Mine is leaning in too much. Agree brakes on rig are a good idea but we are stopping okay. Could be a problem with an older bike with drum brakes.
I have to lay off any strenuous work for at least two weeks. Then not sure how much work I can do.
After 30 hours I am doing okay, using big finger of right hand to help type.
No pain, so no drugs, which I am happy with.
Will likely ride the Suzuki which has easier to operate controls.

Unkle Crusty

Hi Unkle Crusty,
what I meant was, if it started with the wheel upright and it's starting to sag sideways, yeah, it needs fixing.
I reckon that you don't really need a sidecar brake on a modern bike but it's fun to have.
I mostly use my rig's separate pedal s/c brake for playing sillybuggers in car parks.
Good ol' Norm once fitted a Dneipr chair on a friend's BSA 250 single.
Norm backed up the BSA's SLS 7" drum brakes by fitting the Dneipr with an 8" 2LS drum braked Suzuki wheel linked to the BSA's rear brake.
That rig did brake-assisted right turns whenever you stomped the pedal.

[Crusty Snippets]

Wheel

Too much lean from new. Met another XS11 with a sidecar two weeks ago. He said his rig steers easy. Figures my heavy steering is from the wheel leaning in at the top. He uses 3/4 to 1 1/2 inches of tow in. His rig has a 16 inch wheel and sits lower than mine with the 19 inch. I thought the 19 inch looks more traditional.
No more tingling of my hand at night. No pain. Just have to wait for a while before doing any heavy work.

Unkle Crusty

[fredintoon]

Too much lean from new. Met another XS11 with a sidecar two weeks ago. He said his rig steers easy. Figures my heavy steering is from the wheel leaning in at the top. He uses 3/4 to 1 1/2 inches of tow in. His rig has a 16 inch wheel and sits lower than mine with the 19 inch. I thought the 19 inch looks more traditional.
No more tingling of my hand at night. No pain. Just have to wait for a while before doing any heavy work.

Unkle Crusty

Hi Unkle Crusty,
Is the Inder mounted on your XS11?
If so, think about doing the Special fork + Standard 'tree hybrid fork mod to lessen the steering trail.
Typically, a s/c wheel is square with the frame so if the frame is horizontal the wheel is vertical.
Is your Inder mounted with the frame tilted down towards the bike to make the lean wheel in like that?
OK then, when Norm modified my American Spirit's frame to use a Honda Civic hub & wheel he deliberately made the new wheel lean in at the top.
(A s/c wheel lean in is part of Norm's build signature.)
In the 6 years I've owned the sidecar Norm's welded transition has yielded so the wheel leans in a lot more than it did.
So much so that I gotta do something about it before the tire starts rubbing on the s/c body.
But I have not noticed the rig's steering getting heavier as the wheel lean got worse.

[Crusty Snippets]

Inder

Fred.
The sidecar is bolted to the XS11 when I need it. I made a three wheel cart for it to sit on and move around when not attached. Takes about fifteen minutes to remove. I set the rig up level side to side and front to back. The top of the chair wheel is about two inches in at the top. Steers straight at 110 clicks, but steering is way to heavy around corners. After I get the wheel camber correct, and after more tests I will think about adding the damper for the front wheel. I have the VW unit. Yami is my main winter wheels at the moment and the summer two up cruiser, so I will stay with the stock steering geometry.

The 400 Seca will become the winter bike, and I will put on some knobby type tyres. Have about one days work to get the Seca ready.

Unkle Crusty