James England- questions for you

[Crusty Snippets]

These stories are great.
The Japanese did force Harley to do better. Sounds like BSA Triumph and Norton were to far gone to pull out success- in the 1970s anyway.
I like the newest Triumph twins. 800 plus cc inline twin and 63 hp sounds pretty fun.

There are quite a few of the big twin Triumphs around here.
But compare it to a 650 Suzuki. A lot less money, 67 hp, 370 pounds, twin discs front single on the rear, motor runs smooth for at least 100,000 miles.
Insurance is cheaper here. Rear mono shock.
Someone else suggested one of these in the new bike post.
Available as a sport bike or cruiser. I had one before I got the bigger model. Much nicer to ride in the twisties and around town.
But it does not have the classic look or sound.
But sit on the scrambler model ( Triumph ) your right leg is forced out by the exhaust pipes.
The 675 Triumph gets rave reviews as a sport bike.

Unkle Crusty

[James England]

sorry! I only just saw this post!! I don't know how I missed it and hope you don't think I was ignoring it.

Oh dear, don't let me get started on British bikes. I've had two Bonnevilles...a 650 and a 750, a Triumph Tiger Cub and a Norton Commando 850. My mates at the time had a Triumph Trident, a Royal Enfield Crusader, the last of the Meriden Bonnevilles and a little BSA Bantam. I saw the influx of Japanese bikes just about from the very beginning and witnessed the derision and scorn poured on them by 'real' bikers. 'Jap Crap' was often heard. 'Tinny' and 'cheap'. Etc etc

Some people will bombard me with hate mail and I don't want to be gratuitously insulting....I mean, I did my time riding these bikes, after all and spent many a journey at the side of the road, head in my hands. They are all a testament to the arrogance of the British bike industry and its well-deserved failure when the Japanese arrived with bikes that knocked the socks off ours, never leaked oil, ran for years with no trouble and kicked us all into touch. OHC's whilst we plodded on with pushrods. Horizontally split cases where ours were vertical and peed oil, even when brand new. Pathetic bearings. Bits dropping off, useless electrics, laughable Lucas switches, 2 foot long side stands that snapped off. Deadly inefficient brakes. Oh, please stop me someone!! My view? Good riddance to the lot of them!

With no regrets whatsoever, I offloaded my totally useless, vibrating, part dropping Bonneville and bought a brand-new XS1100. It was like going from a donkey cart to a space-ship and I never looked back.

Enough said!

Sorry if I've offended any British bike aficionados but, if you have one, you must surely know what I mean.....

[mharrington]

sorry! I only just saw this post!! I don't know how I missed it and hope you don't think I was ignoring it.

Oh dear, don't let me get started on British bikes. I've had two Bonnevilles...a 650 and a 750, a Triumph Tiger Cub and a Norton Commando 850. My mates at the time had a Triumph Trident, a Royal Enfield Crusader, the last of the Meriden Bonnevilles and a little BSA Bantam. I saw the influx of Japanese bikes just about from the very beginning and witnessed the derision and scorn poured on them by 'real' bikers. 'Jap Crap' was often heard. 'Tinny' and 'cheap'. Etc etc

Some people will bombard me with hate mail and I don't want to be gratuitously insulting....I mean, I did my time riding these bikes, after all and spent many a journey at the side of the road, head in my hands. They are all a testament to the arrogance of the British bike industry and its well-deserved failure when the Japanese arrived with bikes that knocked the socks off ours, never leaked oil, ran for years with no trouble and kicked us all into touch. OHC's whilst we plodded on with pushrods. Horizontally split cases where ours were vertical and peed oil, even when brand new. Pathetic bearings. Bits dropping off, useless electrics, laughable Lucas switches, 2 foot long side stands that snapped off. Deadly inefficient brakes. Oh, please stop me someone!! My view? Good riddance to the lot of them!

With no regrets whatsoever, I offloaded my totally useless, vibrating, part dropping Bonneville and bought a brand-new XS1100. It was like going from a donkey cart to a space-ship and I never looked back.

Enough said!

Sorry if I've offended any British bike aficionados but, if you have one, you must surely know what I mean.....

Very informative. Members here and a History Channel motorcycle documentary do prolclim the Brit bikes and Harley during the 70s were really outclassed by metric bikes. Ironically those same poor quality bikes bring much higher dollars than the Japanese bikes of the same era.

I will say the Triumphs and BSAs look fantastic. I learned at XS650.com the XS650 engine was originally a German design. So was the W650 Kawasaki. Showa aquired a twin engine design from Hosk- and Yamaha bought it from Showa and made the XS-1. Neat stuff to learn

[James England]

In 1979, I advertised for old bikes to do up. I was offered but didn't buy, a Honda 250. It had been produced by Honda with an engine made 'under licence' from BSA, right down to the crossed rifles logo and BSA on the cases. It had huge fenders and whitewall tires and was obviously made like that. I wish I'd bought it now as I suspect it was the beginning of the end for BSA et al but self inflicted, it would seem. Probably quite a bit of history

I've always interpreted the Yamaha crossed tuning forks motif as a cheeky little cock of the snook from the Japanese as it was a parody of the BSA rifles!

Yes, they fetch more money now but I would never pay what they go for. Even the Tiger Cubs go for daft money and mine was as much of a pain as the other British bikes I had.

I dallied for a while with a bright orange Bond Bug which I bought for $75. A Reliant three wheeler which could be driven here on a full bike licence. Someone had mixed up the HT leads of the 700cc four cylinder engine, so it was easily fixed. It was a great little vehicle... There's one on eBay now that's reached $4,500. Oh dear, I should have kept it, along with my RD400, Kawasaki 250 triple, Suzuki GT250 and GT500 and GT125. Or my Yamaha SR500. Or DT125 etc etc. All worth a lot now. We took them all for granted at the time and sold and swapped like crazy. But I still wouldn't want those British bikes back!!

[b.walker5]

Agreed James. I once had a '66 Triumph Saint. Went like a bomb, and blew up like one too. Couldnt keep oil up to, it leaked that much. I actually still have the tray that would sit under it every night. Friends had BSA's, Nortons, Enfields, etc, but not until I bought my first Yamaha (650) did i get a bike that i could jump on and ride without giving it a full medical before starting out. Been helping a friend do up a '72 Bonnie for the last couple of years, but i have no desire to own it.

I would, however, like to own one of these...

[fredintoon]

- - - I've always interpreted the Yamaha crossed tuning forks motif as a cheeky little cock of the snook from the Japanese as it was a parody of the BSA rifles! - - -

Hi James,
BSA's piled rifles and Royal Enfield's artillery piece logos show those companies started life as armaments manufacturers.
Yamaha's triple tuning forks logo shows their start as musical instrument makers.
Not a parody at all, an inspiration.

[jetmechmarty]

I would, however, like to own one of these...

How about one you can ride every day?
XS650 Storm Conversion

[James England]

Hi James,
BSA's piled rifles and Royal Enfield's artillery piece logos show those companies started life as armaments manufacturers.
Yamaha's triple tuning forks logo shows their start as musical instrument makers.
Not a parody at all, an inspiration.

I'm aware of that, Fred. But the BSA crossed rifles was on theirbikes way before Yamaha got into bikes. When they did...guess what.....they put three crossed tuning forks on them...... There's no record of Yamaha using that logo pre-bike, as far as I am aware. Defo a parody..an inspired one though and perfectly apt.

[b.walker5]

How about one you can ride every day?
XS650 Storm Conversion

Yep, Pretty Slick. I like it, but i bet theyre not worth anywhere as much a ridgydidge X75. Last one of those I seen for sale here went for 30k. Mind you, it was completely original and had next to no miles on it.

I wouldnt buy one to ride it. It'd be to help fund my retirement when i finally get sick of working.

[Crusty Snippets]

Late reply

Great reply. How was the reliability of your modified BSA? I forgot to mention the KZ Kawasaki 750 twin. I will say the Kawasaki was 100cc larger with dual overhead cams than the XS650 but yet the Yamaha accelerated slightly quicker.

The above quoted from Harrington.

Mr Snippit- were the Japanese bikes loathed with deep seated hatred by the Triumph and BSA fans? By the way I think the BSA with the chrome plated tanks are beautiful bikes....But the "Divers Helmet" look of the XS650 is a wonderful thing too!

When I first put the BSA together it failed. Big end problems. Next attempt, new mechanic and it ran great. No real problems. But I had stripped it completely, so it was not a stock BSA.
I think there is more separation between Harley, BMW and the rest, today than there was back then. The BMW crowd with their superior attitude were the odd ones out. But The CB750 and the Moto Guzzi were better bikes IMO.
I had BMW, Honda, Triumph, Moto Guzzi and Vespa on the show room floor.
Most shoppers had a brand in mind when they walked in the door.

The Harley " branding " came later. They had nothing to crow about in the early seventies. Too many that had " failed to proceed " had been helped by Honda riders, or joined by BSA riders.

Today if I am riding the Suzuki crotch rocket, a Harley rider generally will not talk to me. That was not the case way back when.

Unkle Crusty

[Crusty Snippets]

reply to James

Quote
Some people will bombard me with hate mail and I don't want to be gratuitously insulting....I mean, I did my time riding these bikes, after all and spent many a journey at the side of the road, head in my hands. They are all a testament to the arrogance of the British bike industry and its well-deserved failure.
James.

I too have joined you on the side of the road, on a British bike.
A new 1971 Norton purchased South Of London, made it all the way to North Central England, and the mechanical advance system blew up.
After removing the round cover many broken pieces fell out.
The backing plate for the points was bent and twisted. I hammered it flat using a rock, and a screw driver from the tool kit, against a metal guard rail.
Situation could only be improved if it was pissing rain.
That was the beginning of many sad stories about my new British made bike.

Unkle Crusty

[CaptonZap]

Today if I am riding the Suzuki crotch rocket, a Harley rider generally will not talk to me. That was not the case way back when.

Unkle Crusty

I would consider that a blessing.
What are you going to talk about if they did talk to you?
The cool color of your doo rags?
The superiority of the quality of their acres of chrome?
The exorbitant prices of their accessories?
Handling?

CZ

[Crusty Snippets]

Harley chat

I would consider that a blessing.
What are you going to talk about if they did talk to you?
The cool color of your doo rags?
The superiority of the quality of their acres of chrome?
The exorbitant prices of their accessories?
Handling?

CZ

Well said.
I suppose the Harley types and I do not have a lot in common.
And as a friend of mine asked. " were you wearing your pink back pack at the time "
My usual question of why would you pay twice as much to go half as fast, does not win many friends.

Unkle Crusty

[James England]

Well said.
I suppose the Harley types and I do not have a lot in common.
And as a friend of mine asked. " were you wearing your pink back pack at the time "
My usual question of why would you pay twice as much to go half as fast, does not win many friends.

Unkle Crusty

pay twice as much to go half as fast for a quarter of the time I reckon, looking at some of those riding positions. We used to call them Harley Worthits in the old days.

Which reminds me...for some reason...of the time one of my Bonnevilles blew a spark plug across a field, at night. I spent two hours with a small torch and found it in the end. I wrapped it in silver paper from a cigarette packet I found at the side of the road and force it back in the stripped plughole. Great fun.

[b.walker5]

Which reminds me...for some reason...of the time one of my Bonnevilles blew a spark plug across a field, at night. I spent two hours with a small torch and found it in the end. I wrapped it in silver paper from a cigarette packet I found at the side of the road and force it back in the stripped plughole. Great fun.

Ahhh... that brings back memories. In the mid to late 70's I had a small backyard business going amongst friends and club aquaintences, heli-coiling spark plug holes (and cases from time to time). Mostly later Pom bikes with alloy heads, but some japs, and the occasional Euro. Almost always resulting from some ham fisted bugger over tightening plugs, or case bolts. At one stage I was buying that many thread kit refill's that one supplier was giving me better discount that the local garages.

Could've made a fortune if i was charging right, but back in the day it was mostly cost of materials and a box of beer, or two, or three... Mates rates.