Honda GL1000 Goldwing

[jetmechmarty]

I live in Georgia. I sent an XS650 tank and sidecovers to a friend in Alabama. He sprayed them black with purple glass for $100.

XS1100SG purchase maybe ten years ago for $2K with <10K miles. I went to Nebraska to get it. It needed nothing.

XS650E -free
XS6502F-$30
XS650SH -free
Suzuki GS550L -free (carbs were dirty and tires old. gas guage inop)
Moto Guzzi V11 EV -free

I come across some good deals, or they find me.

[DGXSER]

Some of those cost Steve is quoting also depends on where in the country (USA) you are. For example, anything in California (cant-afford-ya) is double the price practically. Also depends on if you know someone who does this sort of work. And the size shop you go to ...etc..etc. As to price of bikes, well, again, it depends where you go. Here in Cincinnati Ohio being a larger city, most folks will either assume a bike is worth over $1 a CC or part it out. I drove two hours away to find Bashee for $250. You can not just run out any day of the week and pick one up for those prices, you have ot look and look and look and jump quick to find one for those prices. It is alot mroe common to pay around $1 a cc for a bike.

[crazy steve]

...My respray cost $400 for the XS1100 to OEM standard. Oh and $96 for the decals. The zinc-plating kit was about $75. The GL1000 was $450 for the respray and $80 for the decal kit.

James, the materials for a OEM-quality repaint would cost almost that much here, not including any labor.. If I could find someone who would duplicate the paint on my bought-new '78 for $500, it would've been done by now! I was quoted $600 to respray a Harley tank (only the tank, nothing else) and those are easy as all of Harley's colors are available off-the-shelf. Custom-mixed colors are more money...

[James England]

Well, not everything costs more there; I'm a bit envious of the 'old world craftmanship' you have available for some things.

I never thought of that and assumed that one can get anything in the USA. Interesting. The place where they made the exhaust for me is one of a line of four small businesses on the same industrial street. One does exhausts, another engine rebuilds, another powder coating etc. You can literally take a bike to them and, if you have enough money, it pops out at the other end, fully restored with handmade parts. Maybe we take this kind of thing for granted.



My respray cost $400 for the XS1100 to OEM standard. Oh and $96 for the decals. The zinc-plating kit was about $75. The GL1000 was $450 for the respray and $80 for the decal kit.

$250? Honestly, you can't get a kids bike for that here. I paid $400 for a complete XS1100, non-working, entirely in pieces, boxed into crates and crates. I sold it for parts.

I've certainly found that the hotter climate in some US states means that there are vintage bits over there which are all but unobtainium here. eg fenders and exhausts systems, chrome sissy rails etc. Both my sets of Dyna coils cost 30% less in the USA (and got here without customs interference). I just bought some OEM shocks for the GL from the USA, simply because any available here are rusty.

How did people renovate bikes before the internet???

[crazy steve]

Everything in the UK costs more than in the US....
....When I see the prices you pay over there for used XS1100's, it makes me very envious. I mean $300 sometimes? That's £200 in UK £'s and that won't buy any bike at all, never mind a vintage XS1100...

...I can't help thinking that there is perhaps more of an attitude of disposability in the USA compared to here.. you know, throwing things out easily, I suppose. This appears to extend to bikes too. I'm not judging but only trying to see why you throw out/scrap bikes that we would restore here.

Well, not everything costs more there; I'm a bit envious of the 'old world craftmanship' you have available for some things. That stainless exhaust you had built (then removed because it didn't quite match OEM) would have cost 2 or 3 times what you paid for it here, assuming you could even find anyone who could/would build it. And I suspect your plating and painting costs are lower too; the EPA regulations here have driven plating costs to near-unaffordable levels, and a OEM-quality pro repaint can easily be well over $1K. Even that 'zinc home plating' kit you bought would cost 4-5 times more here than what you paid. You also have a better aftermarket; I see a number of parts available 'over there' that no domestic maker is building. Here, if it's not a Harley, there's not much out there in the way of aftermarket parts with only a few exceptions. You're also helped by the fact that Yamaha didn't offer all the different models like they did here, so you're not faced with so many 'one year only' bits.

Prices and 'disposability'? Very much related... The American consumer has been 'trained' to expect 'newer=better' (again, think about the proliferation of US XS models compared to elsewhere) so 'older' loses value quickly. Add in the fact that most US owners rarely keep up on scheduled maintenence (running the bike until stuff starts to fall off), and pretty quick you need to spend as much in repairs as the bike is worth if you're not doing the work yourself. Sad to say, but the dealers here are part of the problem IMO, as they're more interested in selling you new rather than helping keep what you have good.

And just for grins, I'll tell you I haven't personally paid more than $250 for any of mine with the exception of the one I bought brand new... Of course, none of these 'cheap bikes' were in very good shape (the best of them looked far worse than your 'wing), but as you pointed out, starting with anything better is a bit of a waste as long as it's not a total rust bucket.

[DGXSER]

James, to some extent, there is an attitude of disposibility. When I bought Banshee, the guy I was buying it from had no less than 20 or so cars, about ten versions of the Nissan 280ZX, two old Camaros, a Jaguar, couple MGs. He also had about ten other bikes, all Jap bikes. He told me that this foreign stuff and Jap bikes are so cheap there is no point in fixing them, just ride them till something breaks so bad you can't rig it and then park it and buy another one. And so my poor old XS11 was in such a horrible state when I got it.

As to making money, well, there is alot of truth in what Marty has said. When I wrecked on Thunderstruck, I figured I was done riding, and would not take parts for little to free from members here that were offered when I planned on selling the bike. And when I found the frame was bent up as well as both upper and lower engine case cracked, it was time to part it out. I sold parts for average price of similar items on ebay, used some on Banshee, and still have a couple boxes of parts left. In the process, I tracked what I sold and what I planned to get for the other parts. At this point, the parts I sold have paid for the initial price I paid both bikes, and all the parts I bought to put into banshee. So I am riding a more or less free bike.

It bothers me also to see people take a nice working bike with a title and break it down to sell off parts. The real issue here in the USA is that bikes this old get abanoned and wind up with someone having it that does not have the title or a way to get one. In most of the States here, if you have no title, you will not get one and you can not plate it to go on the street. So it may be a nice clean and running bike, but with no title it is just clutter, or parts. It REALLY bugs me and I hate it as there are SO MANY nice looking bikes on Craigslist for cheap but since they have no title there is no option to street them. So, due to an attempt to stop theft of bikes, or plating a stolen bike, alot of nice bikes that got abandoned, but could be a good transportation for someone, go to the dump or the parts man.

[James England]

James how much did the rechromeing of the old parts cost in the U.K.? It is really expensive here.

I had the headlamp bucket and headlamp rim done, along with two carburettor trims, a couple of special bolts and also the speedo and tacho instrument shells. It cost $184 including shipping back to me. How does that compare to over there?

[James England]

What you're looking at is a business. An old motorcycle is worth far more in parts than it is whole. I can get here for my nice operating XS11, what you would have to pay for a junker. We can't make money that way. We can make money selling parts to restorers.

What you're doing is a labor of love. As has been pointed out, there's no money in it. If there weren't people out there doing what you're doing, there would be no money in breaking bikes for parts. They go hand in hand.

Yes, I understand re the bike being worth more in parts etc... but what I mean is that the standard where it becomes a parts bike, sold to a breaker like yourself, is so much higher in the USA, it seems. ie people are selling bikes to breakers in the USA which people here would be glad to keep and run, just as they are. Our parts bikes have to be pretty bad in order to be parts bikes. Parts bikes generally hdon't run, or have a seized motor, or throw out huge clouds of oil smoke, or sound like steam hammers. Nobody here would dream of selling a working, running, nice looking bike to a breaker. Hence my comment about 'disposability' in the USA....the fact that you're breaking them means people are selling them to you... That doesn't really happen here, probably because vehicles cost so much more new in the first place.

[trdriver71]

James how much did the rechromeing of the old parts cost in the U.K.? It is really expensive here.

[jetmechmarty]

I can't help thinking that there is perhaps more of an attitude of disposability in the USA

What you're looking at is a business. An old motorcycle is worth far more in parts than it is whole. I can get here for my nice operating XS11, what you would have to pay for a junker. We can't make money that way. We can make money selling parts to restorers.

What you're doing is a labor of love. As has been pointed out, there's no money in it. If there weren't people out there doing what you're doing, there would be no money in breaking bikes for parts. They go hand in hand.

[James England]

He is, but not that much more from what I can see for most. Of course, it all depends on how many parts you need to buy; if you're having to make wholesale replacements, it can get expensive quickly...

I've replaced loads but I sell the ones I take off. It's possible to 'upgrade' bits on the bike for cosmetically better ones and then sell the old ones. The difference is cheaper than re-chroming. On the GL, I've sold $750 of old parts from it...... it offsets the cost of the new bits quite substantially.

[crazy steve]

I would expect he's paying much more for parts as well.

He is, but not that much more from what I can see for most. Of course, it all depends on how many parts you need to buy; if you're having to make wholesale replacements, it can get expensive quickly...

[James England]

Basically, we are talking about two completely different markets, unfortunately for me. Everything in the UK costs more than in the US (eg gas $10 + a gallon). CD's, DVD's, new (and therefore, used) vehicles, food, eating out. A packet of 20 Marlboros is $11 (not that I smoke). Electrical goods. Anything. 65% of a gallon of gas is TAX

When I see the prices you pay over there for used XS1100's, it makes me very envious. I mean $300 sometimes? That's £200 in UK £'s and that won't buy any bike at all, never mind a vintage XS1100.

So, whilst our costs are higher re bikes, they sell for a lot more than in the US.

Re spares... I've bought lots of them for both bikes from the USA because they are so much cheaper and, even with shipping costs, it's cheaper than here for many things. UK Customs impose an import tariff if they check parcels over £40 in value... they add 20% on the cost of the goods +shipping and a clearance fee of $15.

Re renovating bikes. No, you can never get your labour costs back. No chance. In fact, you're lucky to break even on costs and that's why I've done bikes I want to keep. I paid $2160 for my XS11 before even renovating it and that was a fair price. The GL cost $1632 and that was less than average for a badly-running early GL in need of a full restoration. So, you can imagine what I feel when I look on US eBay and see what you can buy. I even considered buying a Honda CBX1000 from the USA and importing it because of the price difference. I know of one seller on eBay in the USA who posts videos of the bikes he's breaking for spares... I mean, he shows them running and sounding and looking great! "These spares came from a good running bike" etc. I can't help thinking that there is perhaps more of an attitude of disposability in the USA compared to here.. you know, throwing things out easily, I suppose. This appears to extend to bikes too. I'm not judging but only trying to see why you throw out/scrap bikes that we would restore here.

I think for me it's this... I like the bikes and had them when I was younger. I like 'saving' them and getting them to look and run really well for another couple of decades at least. They drive me mad with the problem solving side of things but people stop and look at them in the street and admire them. I could probably break even if I sold them but, importantly, the process of renovating them is therapeutic, an interest, cheaper than drink/drugs/psychiatric counselling or holidays! So, hey!, my little luxury. Would agree?

[jetmechmarty]

Vintage bikes generally bring much better prices there than they do here, so you can spend the money fixing one up

I would expect he's paying much more for parts as well.

[crazy steve]

One thing James has going for him is his used motorcycle market is much different compared to the US. Vintage bikes generally bring much better prices there than they do here, so you can spend the money fixing one up with a reasonable expectation of at least getting your financial outlay back, if not your labor 'costs'. A bike that would realistically sell here in the $2-3K range can bring about double that amount there, while 'rebuild' costs are about the same. Sure, there's always a few exceptions, but don't bet on it...

James' pro-done paint, carbs, and plating costs are probably close or equal to what the finished bike would be worth here unless you could find the right buyer, not an easy thing to do. When I rebuilt the SG I recently sold, I watched costs like a hawk and did virtually everything myself. I was also fortunate in that I had almost no money in my 'starter bike' (by selling unwanted touring bits off it, I reduced my investment in it to under $50), so that allowed more for needed parts. And I didn't even try for the level of perfection James has reached, I settled for very 'nice'. I managed to 'make' money (recovered all my costs plus some), but my labor worked out to under $2 per hour... But I figured that going in, so it wasn't a surprise.

With all that said, James' 'wing is still a beautiful bike and you should be proud!