1979 Triumph Bonneville Special (T140D)

[James England]

I've had three of these, years ago in the late 1970's. They were still being produced as late as 1980 by the re-born (and shortlived) Meriden Works in England. I had a friend who bought a brand-new one. I rode regularly the 350 mile trip to university in Scotland, from England. Here's my opinion on them... They have a certain cachet and glamour in some circles but they are basically primitive, leaky, unreliable bikes which suffer from oil leaks, vibration, fuel leaks and other charming characteristics. If used regularly, especially any distance over 100 miles, bits vibrate off (due to the non-counterbalanced crankshaft and pistons moving up and down together). They blow bulbs all the time. The crankcases are all vertically split and leak. The indicators (Lucas) always drop off. The crankcases are sandcast alloy that is rough and fulls with oil/petrol/grease. Especially if you have Amal carbs with a cold-start 'tickler' on them which floods the carbs by overriding the float needle... fuel goes all over the cases. My fuel tank once SPLIT due to vibration. I lost an exhaust muffler on the A66 to Scotch corner after it vibrated off. The sidestand is the daftest design ever and they used to just flop over after breaking the welded lug on the frame because the sidestand is about 18" long and acts like a giant lever on the lug.

Re the chain.... people tried dipping them in molten grease, using a Scott-Oiler (great for the environment...not) and they always rattle and jiggle about and need loads of messing with. You can use an O-ring chain though... well, I did.

Switchgear is poor and the wiring loom is primitive. My seat pan buckled (with me being so heavy at 182lbs), shorted out the battery and caused a wiring fire.

One of mine blew out a sparkplug for no apparent reason. Another bent a valve at only 85mph.

They always blue the single skinned header pipes and often vibrated the finned collar studs off the head.

Brakes are terrible which is acceptable as the performance is poor.

The engine is tappets with pushrods going up a chromed tube which defies all leak sealing and, even on my friend's brand-new one, leak oil. Incidentally, she filled the fuel tank and spilt some gas on the tank.... it removed the paint!

All in all, IMO they are poor quality, vastly overrated and totally unreliable. I got rid of my Bonneville and bought my first XS1100. It felt like going from a donkey cart to a flying saucer and it is quite obvious why the British bike industry was destroyed by the Japanese. Deservedly so. In fact there are one or two very interesting books about the arrogance of the British bike manufacturers... eg "Electric start? Why do riders have legs?". Indicators..... "what's wrong with an arm?".... etc . Yamaha produced the XS650 as a response to the Bonneville... it had a counter-rotating balance shaft, reciprocating pistons and loads of other Japanese features. My mate had one and it was incomparably better than my Bonneville. That's when I fell in love with the XS1100's.... because they were exacty the opposite of everything I'd endured with the British bikes!

I'd keep the bike as an interesting and valued inheritance and use it locally. I wouldn't contemplate any plans of long tours or commuting or holidaying on it.

NO disrespect intended re your own bike, your father or inheritance by the way! You did ask us oldsters!

[crazy steve]

...Yamaha produced the XS650 as a response to the Bonneville... it had a counter-rotating balance shaft, reciprocating pistons and loads of other Japanese features...

Ok, tell how you really feel....

I will note that the early Yamaha 650 twins lacked that internal counterbalance and shook pretty good; a long distance ride on mine meant you almost needed someone to pry your hands off the bars when you got there. I don't know when they added that, but it was after '72. To it's credit, nothing ever fell off....

I had a friend back when I owned my 650 who lovingly rebuilt a BSA 650. The bike was beautiful, and had the 'sound' too. He took off cross-country on it, got as far as some two-bit town in Montana when Lord Lucas (the Prince of Darkness) reared his head and the electrics self-destructed. Caught the bike on fire, and he traded the remains for a bus ticket home...

[jetmechmarty]

James,

A friend of mine is a Triumph fan. In his flock is a '01 Bonneville, and a '77 Bonneville. The '77 is the one you speak of. On one visit, he put me on the new Bonnie, while he rode the '77. After a couple of hours, we traded. The '77 is just as you describe. The clocks were spinning in their mounts and the vibration, heavy. None the less, I didn't want to get off. I loved riding the early Bonnie. It certainly lets you know you're alive! The new Bonnie has little character by comparison.

I have four XS650 Yamahas in my garage. One is the last US import that I've owned since new. They have no counterbalance shaft. You're thinking of the TX750 and TX500. I'm sure the TX750 was so equipped. My XS650 has little in common with the Triumph, other than being a 360 degree parallel twin. It's a great bike with a lot of character all its own. After all these years, the more I ride it, the more I like it! Last year I rode the length of the Blue Ridge Parkway and back on my XS650! OK, maybe I'm too old to do that again, but it was a memorable experience.

Ride on!

Marty (in Leipzig)

[James England]

Ok, tell how you really feel....

oops... as you can see, it hits a raw nerve (after 30 years or more). I mean, it was the days before mobile phones, the RAC (Royal Automobile Club) didn't do recovery for bikes. You set off for Scotland in cold weather, you're in the middle of nowhere and.... the fuel tank cracks along a welded seam and gas starts dribbling all over you. Then your silencer falls off and is flattened by a goods vehicle behind you and you continue on a bare header pipe, sounding like an aeroplane. Then, one by one, the indicators rotate and fall off. Your legs have a fine film of oil on them from the rocker covers. The kickstart return pawl spring is so weak that the kickstart dangles. The centre stand clanks every time you go over a slight bump. The instruments are unreadable as they vibrate.

Only 250 miles to go......

The headlamp bulb blows (again) as dusk falls. You stop to put a spare in and find that, when you switch back on, the bike's one and only fuse blows repeatedly. Oh yes, it's the rear brake light switch dropping off.....

Then, in the distance you see a Yamaha XS1100 approaching and a Honda 750.... then a GS1000.....and a BMW or two...... all made only months after your British Triumph and all with riders making humiliating offers of assistance as you sit there with a small puddle of oil under the bike.......

Grrr.... I still haven't got over it


ps don't get me talking about 850 Commandos!

[crazy steve]

Grrr.... I still haven't got over it

Jeez, I never would have guessed....

It's a shame too, as the Brits built some gorgeous machines, and when everything was 'right' actually performed pretty good too. But their unreliabilty became so notorious that not even the looks could overcome their reputation. I own multiple Jaguars, and while some parts of the cars are very well designed, you run into other bits that makes you say to yourself 'what the hell were they thinking???' Jag stuck with Lucas for years, and I joust with Lord Lucas on a regular basis; currently he's winning, as I'll be damned if I can get the climate control to work right in my XJS for more than a few days...

[James England]

XJS

Please, don't use bad language. This is a family site.....

A couple of days from the aircon? You're doing well. I assume that the rest of the electrics don't work though

Even the legendary E-type Jaguar is riddled with British quaintness. Did you know that, during the 1950's, when cars in the USA had aircon, automatically closing softops, electric windows etc, in the UK, a heater was an optional extra? So was underseal, right through the 1970's. I don't think the E-types' windscreen wipers worked, even when new!

[James England]

By the way, there are some very interesting books here about the demise of the car and bike industries in the UK. The reasons for those 'why did they do that?' things becomes clearer...... political infighting, resistance to new manufacturing techniques and materials (remember when plastic was considered 'cheap and nasty'?), antiquated factories with outdated and obsolete unions and trades which refused to cooperate. It went on and on. The 'amazing' Hesketh motorbike was a disaster. Meriden was awful. Strikes all the time at Austin Rover resulted in bare-metal bodies sitting in the rain for 6 months before being 'derusted' and sprayed (before rusting again). Patrician/aristocratic management style and ideas rejecting sense from the shop floor (when applicable).... it's fascinating really. BSA went from licencing engine production in Japan to Yamaha (hence the three crossed BSA rifles being turned into 3 tuning forks on Yamaha) to being driven out of business.


There's a book here called "The Book of Heroic Failures" and I recall that the bike industry features in it. Along with the MD of UK Gestetner, when presented with the first photocopier, who said "Nothing will replace the wax stencil"....... so the inventor took it to Rank in the USA. Things like that happened daily at Triumph, I reckon......I mean... on my Norton 850 Commando, the electric start was hilariously non-functional and the Isoelastic suspension...... Oh no! I've started! I'll shut up!

[crazy steve]

British quaintness

So that's what you're supposed to call it...

[bikerphil]

Oh no! I've started! I'll shut up!

That's some funny sh*t, keep it coming, lmao.

[petejw]

heres a pic taken of my mates 66 trumpy
next to my xs taken a cpl of months back.

[James England]

[QUOTE=petejw;350570]heres a pic taken of my mates 66 trumpy
next to my xs taken a cpl of months back.
See that chrome strip up the middle of the fuel tank on the Trumpet? That's to cover a welded seam.... the one that split on my bike. I know which bike I'd rather have!

[jetmechmarty]

A close friend of mine is into Triumph restorations. I acquired a 1969 T100R several years ago on the cheap. I ended up giving it to him and he made it a show winner. Triumph never made a bike that nice. I know the tank was cut in half so that it could be rewelded properly before paint. Yep, when I had it, it was leaking at the seams. I came home from work one day and found the fire dept at my house and the bike outside. My wife smelled gasoline and called them. They found the offending machine (the Triumph), removed it, and cleared my basement with a large fan. I gave it away a short time later. I can't imagine how much money was spent on its restoration.

The photo is one I found on the web. The actual bike I described is much nicer.

[Lonerider62]

With few exceptions, my life on motorcycles has been on chain-drive models. I've had two shafties and 5 belt drives the remaining twenty were good chain-drive machines. The biggest problem with early chain drives, even up to the early 80's, was the materials, not the design. Today's chains are much, much better and anyone who has had one would know that. Any decent 0-ring chain should be able to provide well over 20,000 miles of service without a problem. I use nothing but Maxima chain wax and I've gone over 5000 miles without a cleaning or check while on a long summer trip. I don't do that normally, but it goes to show that the newer chains can put up with a lot more neglect and stress than the old ones could. My current FZ1, which has just shy of 20,000 miles has had it's adjusters tured less than a complete 360 degrees. I keep a log of my adjustment cycles and when I actually had to make an adjustment. I also use a KettenMax chain cleaner before every lube and in my opinion that cleaning is just as important as the lube itself. I would guess your bike has a 520 or a 525 chain and if you get a good DID or equivalent, you shouldn't have many troubles with chain issues. As far as the rest of the bike goes?

[Barnfresh]

BSA Bonneville

That is some interesting history on the British bikes...
I found a '71 BSA or $100 back about '77. A college student had dropped it and it slid into a curb, molding the right exhaust pipe to the case and twisting the engine in the frame, breaking the bottom through bolt engine mount. I removed the engine, had the aluminum welded and straightened the frame with a chain, bumper and a tree.
The basic bike was a triumph with a 650 BSA engine. The oil tank was a 4 inch pipe which also doubled as a frame member. The "oil in frame" was an interesting idea, but the welds eventually cracked and leaked.
I never really rode it much before selling it, but it was interesting how the two manufactures tried to merge and survive. Kind of like Hudson and Studebaker... Thanks for the history James!

[jetmechmarty]

Kind of like Hudson and Studebaker...

It was Studebaker and Packard, or two drunks trying to help each other across the street.