Sticking carb slides?!?

[markjs]

OK, this problem is on an '83 Kawasaki KZ750H4, but I am pretty sure my XSEleven, has the same problem to a much smaller degree. The trouble is that when you start the bike, it will idle at proper speed, but as soon as you apply any throttle at all, the idle jumps to about 4K and stays there, until you either slip the clutch a little to get the idle back down, or stop and restart it. Also when you open the throttle full, it can't go over 8K, and if you try that same thing under a load (riding) the limit is 6K, and it doesn't rev any higher without sounding like it wants to puke.

The KZ is a garaged bike for many years and the guy got it in a non running condition. It has only 14K miles on it, and I have cleaned the carbs as thoroughly as one can with just a can of carb spray and an air compressor, but I did a FULL disassemble and cleaned it right, making sure to mark location of each part relative to the carb it came from. Trouble is, the KZ also has some weird ass "Air Suction System" for emissions and I have no idea if it is working correctly.

The XSEleven, was up until three days ago, my only mode of transportation, so I never had the liberty to adress it's problem and I still don't until the KZ is running right. Thing about the XS, is that it is OLD, and it was just sitting in a yard in the weather for years, and the carbs were FILTHY and I did a crude cleanup to get them running and have been riding it in that state for quite some time, but it's getting about 15MPG if that tells you anything. The reason I suspect sticking slides on it, is that when I try to set the idle at about 1500 (the only place it will keep consistant) but as soon as I ride it, it wil either die at lights if I don't goose the throttle a little bit, or if I goose it too much it might idle up to 2k to 2.5K, and it's been impossible to get it to just idle. I have never removed it's slides, being as it was my only mode, and I feard damaging the diaphrams.

So with both bikes I suspect sticking slides, but the trouble is I am of limited means and I have BROKE myself on other items to get the KZ running in hopes of better gas mileage. So I have no money to fix the slides by replacing them or anything.

So the question is, how do you make old slides that stick in an immaculately clean carb, to stop sticking, without replacement? Please don't start off with telling me about the right way and wrong way to do things, because I just cant afford it right now and I just have to get out from under my gas mileage issue so I can afford to fix the XS too. Thankfully I still have the XS in roadworthy condition in the mean time.

I am DESPARATE, so if there is a quick and dirty way, I'll take it on the KZ, just so I can start work on the XS, and do it right on both bikes eventually as I can handle the costs. Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to be perfectly clear. Thanks for any help in advance.

[mro]

Can't help with the KZ with out looking myself.
The 81 XS tho sounds like:
Pilot curcut not clean....or
A) carb sync not right
B) jet inside float bowl not clean
C) vacuum leak or vac/fuel hoses not hooked up correctly

Are the plugs still intack covering the pilot screws?
(center top of carbs inlet side)
can not clean pilot circut properly with out removing pilot screws.


mro

[markjs]

OK, let me make it clearer. The XS runs good enough for now, and I have no car. I only have a KZ and an XS, and the XS is fine but the KZ is not. I cannot begin to think about the XS, until the KZ is roadworthy as I'd have no transportation if I tore into the XS, I am almost positive, that the issue with the KZ is carb slides and I desparately need to know how to fix that before I can even consider adressing the XS.

Let me complicate it further. Remember i am dirt poor, and the XS is licensed, but the KZ is not. Even thought I could ride the KZ and fix the XS, I can't afford to license the KZ until it runs at least as good as the XS. Also, the XS, is so worn and stuff that I am terrified that when I start dissassembling it, that the diaphrams are gonna tear to ****, and slides will absolutely have to be replaced. The KZ, on the other hand, has good rubber inside it's carbs.

Personally, I'd prefer to have the XS running tip top, and worry about the KZ later, but circumstances just don't make that a viable option at this time.

I realize this is the XS1100 forum, and this is kind of borderline if it should be in this forum, but the XS1100 I own is quite at issue so I put it here. I want to fix them both and do it right, but I have to fix the KZ first.

Again, how do I fix sticking carb slides without replacing them? It's a simple question.

I thank you for your help mro, but I really have to do the KZ first, but since I suspected the same issue with the XS I used this forum, because it would be read by more people on this site.

[red bandit]

What MRO said. Applies to both bikes. If you didn't take the slides out then you didn't clean it very well. Never had the diaphragms fall apart. If you don't take ALL the jets out, then it ain't clean. Carbs don't get dirty tar/varnish in 5 seconds, don't expect to clean em in 5 sec. Spray carb cleaner works great, you have to give it time to work.

[markjs]

Would someone PLEASE read my whole damn post! On the KZ I COMPLETELY disassembled and COMPLETELY cleaned the carbs, including slides, and it still sticks.

I am sorry if I am frustrated, but all I wanna know is what do you do when a clean slide sticks, and you can't afford to replace it?!?

As well, I am now down to about $60 to my name til next month, and my bike gets 15MPG, and I NEED an answer FAST!!!

I really am greatful for any help I can get, but I am only asking one simple question, and nobody is willing to answer so far, and I have searched this site and the web and cannot find that answer. One more time:

How to you get IMMACULATELY clean slides to stop sticking, when you CANNOT afford to replace them.

Again sorry for my anger, because both of you, I am greatful that you answered, but on these BBS's nobody ever reads the whole post!

[chadwickm]

You may have a small bur on the side of the guide causing it to stick. Disassemble and check with your finger, if you find something, carefully sand it smooth with some 2000 grit sand paper or 000 steel wool.

[markjs]

Hallelujah!

Thank you so much, man was that ever hard!

[chadwickm]

Originally posted by markjs
Hallelujah!

Thank you so much, man was that ever hard!

It might be a good idea to smooth them all out even if you don't feel anything, just to be sure.

[81xsproject]

Why don't you just check and see if the slide is actually sticking? You don't even have to take the carbs off. Just remove whatever filter stuff is in your way on that side of the carbs. Then, stick you finger in the rear carb throat and raise the slide all the way up and let go. All the slides should come down at roughly the same rate. If none of them stick or take significantly longer to come down, then that is not your problem and you can go from there.

[DiverRay]

markjs,
The problem is PROBABLY NOT a sticking slide. DID YOU SYNC THE CARBS WITH A TOOL!! If not, you are chasing your tail!
IF the carbs are NOT properly synced, the bike WILL NOT IDLE properly. You can have ONE CARB pull up the idle, or cause the engine to die.
You also NEED to pull the slides in order to pull and clean the emulsion tube on the carbs.

[markjs]

OK, the problem with checking if the slides are sticking is that there is no clearance. I can take the airbox boots off, but they are some of them hard like plastic on one side, and the only way I can get the carbs off is soft side up. The airbox mounting bolts, when removed, only yeild about 4mm of clearance, and the box can't be removed without the carbs off. So far I haven't broken a boot, but I want as little trauma to them as possible because of their suspect condition. I need to fix this with as few carb pulls as is possible, because until next month I don't have one red cent to invest on this any further. Getting the airbox boots off without removing the carbs would almost certainly destroy them.

As for synching I have been reviving dead bikes for years, and I never needed to synch with a tool before. I simply (with carbs off) align the butterfly valves all as exactly as possible, with the pinhole at the top as a reference point, and I have NEVER had anything close to this problem before, so I am not having the "out of synch" theory, because it doesn't hold water.

The reason I suspect the slides, is simply because the bores had visible scuffs on them. The slides themself were fine. I have never had sticking slides on other bikes with scuffed bores, but that doesn't mean it can't happen, and the scuffs, are pretty easily visible. You cannot feel the scuffs, but as visible as they are that's what leads me to the conclusion I have made.

The only other possiblity I can see, is a vaccum leak or a flaw in the "air suction system". This consists of a vacuum activated valve, that opens a passage to the airbox, and adds air into the exhaust, to burn off extra fuel during deceleration. I am 95% positive, that is NOT the issue. When I connect it properly, and when I disconnect it and plug up the vacuum ports, there is NO change at all, and the problem is exactly the same.

[markjs]

BTW, the battery is now dead, because of all the starting and she needs several hours on the trickle charge. I am probably not gonna work on this much more today, but I am still interested in you opinions. Thank you all who have tried so far, and I will let you know when I do trace down the problem.

[fredintoon]

Hi Mark,
you ain't the only one that's broke but at my age I can stay home & eat KD until the pension cheque arrives.
However, you had those Kawi carbs off once and if you dare not flex the intake boots to remove them so you can play proctologist with them on the bike, you just gotta take 'em off again. If they slide nice with the carb rack in your hand, they should work OK on the bike too.

[81xsproject]

Bench synching IS good. However, it is no where near as good as doing it with the bike running, end of story.

[AlanB]

Hi markjs,

Reviving the boots on the Kawa should be easy....... and cheap! Take 'em off, drop them in a plastic bag with some kind of compound which has a lot of silicone in it; vinyl reviver, some types of furniture polish, vacuum grease; doesn't matter what it is -so long as it is full of silicone........ NOT WD40; despite the rumours, it is non-silicone!

Tie it up, and leave it somewhere warm for a couple of weeks. They will come out like new, soft and flexy, and then you can pull the carbs off and on easily.

Rising idle is usually either synch problem, or an air leak somewhere around the intake. If it is revving, it is getting air; it either has to come past the butterfly, or sneak around somewhere else. No air; no revs!

If the butterfly is shutting down properly, it shouldn't matter too much what the slide is doing...... Air still can't go through the carb.

Just to hit the basics, try loosening the adjuster on the throttle cable a couple of turns to make sure the linkage is not hanging on the cable.

AlanB