Helmet? What's a helmet?

[Pat Kelly]

Re: one should dress for the crash, not the ride.

Originally posted by mro
Pretty much just a couple kinds of riders.
Those who have gone down, and
those who are going to go down.

If you ride enough, its just a matter of time.

Certainly doesn't have to be your fault, dosen't have to be "bad" but bets are it will happen.

mro


btw
As a kid, wore a pony tail and sun glasses.
Couldn't/wouldn't happen to me.
(well just a few times)

I've ridden for 30 years now on the road and (for a short stint) on the track and I have yet to experience a major accident on my bike. I've been witness to a few, 2 of those I watched my friend die. In that 30 years I've had hundreds of close calls and more than a few times I should have hit the pavement or another vehicle but didn't.
So from my point of view, an accident isn't inevitable. I also wear a Shoei full face helmet and an armored jacket and most of the time armored pants. Like my earlier comment, The best rider in the world (which I'm definately not) shares the road with the worst rider (which I hope I'm not). I attribute my 'collision avoidance' to track time. More than one occasion I scraped one or both pegs getting out of the way.

[trbig]

Just my 2 cents worth... but anybody that says helmets don't help... or stats that say so, has never run at full speed with a ball and run into a middle linebacker, who happens to be running at HIS full speed, and met helmet to helmet. What is the combined impact speed there... 25 or 30 miles an hour? Concussions happen all the time WITH the helmet on.... imagine without it?? Even to be tackled at ground level which results in the back of your head smacking the ground from 6 feet up at @ 13 miles an hour as was stated, results in many bells and whistles in the head and concussions. I would hate to imagine a 55+ mph contact. All I can suggest for DP, is to look at anatomy pictures of the head and see that a human skull isn't much more than a skin covered egg... with soft, pliable, delicate tissue under the shell.
I do agree that I have MORE of my senses with my helmet on (Full face with shield) than without. Like TC, I cannot see any helmet in my periferal view looking ahead, and I can actually see better with a mask on than I can with the sunglasses I would normally wear if I wasn't without a helmet... wind not blowing my face around, although actual goggles would prevent this also. But I will have to say that my hearing is DRAMATICALLY improved with a helmet versus without. All you hear is wind without it. I will have to admit that I occasionnaly do ride without one in the hot summers we have here, on a quick trip to town or something, but 95% of the time I wear one... for my family.
One argument not discussed really, but hit upon, was an un-named Dale Earnhard. His injuries resulted from hitting a fixed object so hard, that his helmeted head with the additional helmet weight tried to continue forward. It resulted in a basal skull fracture, which basically was a whiplash injury that caused his skull to seperate from the spinal column. They now have installed a device that only lets the head go so far, and helps reduce these occurances. Hitting something with your body on a bike wreck to cause this... a helmet is a mute point anyway.
DP, if you feel like people are attacking you, you are wrong. But you have made a faulty decision on faulty information, and seem to be trying to sell us on your reasoning of your defective opinion. Taking for granted that you have the reaction time of a drag racer, the hand-eye coordination of a fighter pilot, and a bike that stops on a dime with no possible skidding of the tires. (On the absolutely perfect condition asphalt you have there) In your perfect world with your world class riding abilities, you still have to ride past blind intersections, blind curves, and old people that have blind everything. This doesn't even start to mention drunks, people in cages talking on cell phone while eating and applying makeup, or the many people that will see a bike, and for some reason... it just doesn't register. When you have less than half a second before impact, what are the best riding skills in the world going to do for you? If you were riding the twisties... rock wall on your left... guard rail to your right (With drop off beyond that), and you meet 2 racing cages, side by side, taking both lanes and you have no chance of stopping?? Just a what if... but... a could be. Most reasonable people would at least hope for a helmet in that situation.
I applaud you that you have never been in a wreck so far. But to suggest that your finely attuned helmetless senses are the reason for this, and not more than pure chance of dumb blind luck (You haven't been in the wrong place at the wrong time yet) I am sure your senses help you, but to assume you will never have skull to road impact because of them... foolish.
Sorry about the book guys.

Tod

P.S. I don't remember who wrote it in here recently... but I loved it.. something like... "Arguing with people online is like running a race in the Special Olympics.... even if you win, you're still retarded!" I guess I am running in that race now!

[xs650mike]

orry if I sound preachy, but yeah, I am

Originally posted by Targetman
And when you say you are going to do everything in your power not to have an accident? C'mon..... Are you really THAT good? If you finally do go down, you will see there is not enough time to plan any avoidance....
It's like these guys who say to me "I had to lay it down for safety"....
If you have enough time to "plan" to lay it down, you have enough time to brake and swerve or even stop.
What they really mean is that they panick-stopped and it WENT down.

That is exactly the case. Everyone who says they had to lay it down because they didn't have time to stop any other way really doesn't have a clue as to how to stop a bike quickly. What they really did was stomp the back brake, sliding the tire and bringing the rear around. A tire on the verge of sliding has way more road friction than a sliding tire. A sliding tire has way more road friction than a bike lying on its side sliding. If you really want to hit that cager who just cut you off, just lay the bike down.

A better plan is to practice stopping quickly so you know how when that emergency occurs. Most of your stopping power is from the front brake due to weight transfer. Use the front brake hard and feed in rear until you feel the rear start to slide then back off a bit on the rear.

I learned a lot about watching out for the other guy when riding dispatch. Little things like watching the parked cars for exhaust smoke or brake lights so you're not taken by surprise when the cager pulls out in front of you. When you see damage on the driver's side of the car it means it's doubly likely that the guy will pull out without looking. People never seem to learn from prior accidents, they kid themselves that the other guy was speeding, "He came out of nowhere!" No, *ssh*le, you just forgot to look! If the car coming toward you at an intersection has right front quarter damage it's dollars to donuts the fool is going to turn left into your path. He did it to a car before, what makes you think he won't do it to a bike?

Most accidents can be prevented even if they're the other person's fault. Don't trust anyone. Don't just ride through an intersection without visually clearing it first, even if you've got a green light or the cross street has a stop sign. A week doesn't go by that someone pulls out in front of me from a stop sign or driveway. Taking your right-of-way can get you killed. If you do have an accident or near miss that was someone else's fault, don't just get mad, ask yourself what you could have done to avoid the situation in the first place. We all know that cagers are clueless. Don't compound the situation by being clueless yourself. Every time I've fallen or had a near miss with some moron I've learned a lesson. I haven't survived this long by making the same mistakes twice.

Monitor your rear view mirrors constantly. Don't just trust your mirrors when making lane changes or turns. Always, always, always take a quick glance over your shoulder just before you make your move. I've been saved by this simple habit many times over the years. One time I was on my way to work. I turned into the street where my work was and signalled my left turn into the driveway simultaneously checking my mirrors. No one was behind me, in fact the street was clear all the way to the end of the block. I arrived at my employer's driveway, checked my mirrors again and glanced over my left shoulder to find a BMW auto passing me at 45-50 mph in spite of my signal. Speed limit on the street was 25 mph. Obviously the cager had entered the block after I had checked my mirrors the first time. If he had been going the speed limit there was no way he would have overtaken me before I turned off the street. (And people wonder why I hate yuppies so much.)

[TopCatGr58]

Inevitable Impacts?

Son of a gun, Pat,

Now that you mention it, I, too, have been riding for 30 yrs! Dang, where'd the time go? I've had a few spills, first was a bike to bike just a few weeks after I had gotten my new 74 TX500 in '76. We essentially totalled both bikes, but walked away with minor bruises and rashes. Then in the late 80's, a cager turned in front of me on my way to work, was able to get lots of speed reduction thru hard braking before the final impact, but after bouncing off her windshield, had only bruises.

Just a few weeks ago I was in my cage, busy mid-day traffic near shopping center, went thru a light, coming up to traffic stopped. I slow down gradually instead of racing to a stop, was watching my rear view mirror, this 'dude' was talking to his 'ol lady' and not paying attention, and was coming up on my rear pretty fast, so I started pumping the brake lights, got his attention almost too late, he hit the brakes hard and skidded, but thankfully I hadn't pulled up too close to the car infront of me, and was able to roll forward a bit to give the potential rear-ender some more braking room, and he was able to get it stopped before hitting me!

Yeah, TrBig, saw a show about Nascar safety, and about how they had that head stabilizing strap for Nascar drivers, but Dale refused to use one, can't remember the reason they said that Dale used, but after that, it became MANDATORY for them to use them! Seat belts for passenger cars weren't standard until the 60's, and people STILL don't wear them! Freedom of choice and Darwin processes at work!
T.C.

[JWSanders]

All I can add to this debate is that I used to frequent a lot of those "grossout picture" sites.

They all had sections for "Fools Without Helmets"

I've seen several hundred pictures of what it looks like when your head is ground flat on one side by sliding on the pavement. Or smacked by a tree. Or mashed through a chanlink fence. Or forced through a crack in a drivers window. Or caught in a dip in a guard rail, or....well, you get the picture.

It ain't pretty.

Seen all I need to see. I'll take all the protection I can get. I wear full armor, full face lid, crossed fingers, prayer to all the various gods, voodoo chant, salt over shoulder, four leaf clover, rabbit's foot....well, you get the picture.

[xs650mike]

Guess I'm the careful type. I had seatbelts installed in my first car, a '52 Plymouth, in 1960. I did it because a couple of girls I knew spun out (loose gravel) in their Volkswagen beetle on the way home from the beach and it turned over. The doors popped open and they were both thrown out on the road in their swimsuits. They were very painfully but not seriously hurt.
Doctors at the emergency hospital spent about 3 hours picking gravel out of their abraded hides. They were dosed with a lot of penicillin to prevent infection which is a real hazard with these sorts of injuries. One of the moms told me that her daughter screamed in pain every time she showered.

[prometheus578]

"Damn... who started this debate, and where was I?"

Geez... I skip a few days and miss a good fight!
I hate having that big, bulbous, round thing atop of my neck... and I hate even more having to put a helmet on it!
ahahhahahah
geez... all the good comments have been used already.
T.C.'s quip "Indian Head"... oh I roared!
hhahahhahahah
And yes, Trbig... in the Special Olympics "One Meter" race, you are way out ahead.
The only times I've had to lay my bike down were due to my own stupidity... either in my driveway, or stopped at an intersection, so I can't offer personal opinion. I did write once about the "walking facial scab" who decided finally to order a full faced helmet while I waited for the insurance check to start repairs on his bike.
A helmet will not save your kidneys when you hit a tree at 60 miles per, nor your spine when you when you do a non-elastic "back bend" across a guard rail. But, in an otherwise non fatal accident, all things being equal and incurring no other death defining injuries, it will prevent your head from cracking open and showing the world how hollow it was.
Every major organ and such is protected to some degree by a layer of impact cushioning muscle, and in some of our cases, by a thick layer of fat. Though some people can be called "Fat-Heads', most people just have a thin skin covering what the Lizard King called "their fragile, eggshell minds". Damage the good stuff inside, and all significant function stops.
Well... might not stop completely... you might still be able to run a lap or two against Tribig if you so desire.

[Pat Kelly]

The only time I purposely "layed it down" was when I was 10 years old at my Grandparents house. The kid across the street was having a birthday party and they invited me. Everyone was riding bicycles in the street. Someone lent me their bike. Well the chain came off (coaster brakes) and I somehow got going down the neighbors 100 foot long driveway, a very steep pea-gravel driveway. As gravity accelerated me to their garage door, I swerved to the bushes to the right (now going 25 MPH, seemd like 125). ACK, rose bushes!!!!! Turned back left and the front wheel washed-out. Long pants helped the 1st 10 feet. Elbows and knees got pretty torn-up.
Didn't hit my head though.

[D. P. Larmee]

I’ll be the first to admit that some of my arguments are a bit far fetched and that at times, I just like playing devil’s advocate. I’m sure that helmets do more good than harm. I should probably wear mine more often, but for me it’s the feeling of vulnerability that makes me stay ultra-alert to what is around me. I, personally, go into auto pilot in my cage. If I drove my truck somewhere and upon reaching my final destination you asked me what route I took to get there, I’d say that there’s a fifty-fifty chance that I won’t remember. I was probably doing something else; listening to music, drinking a cup of coffee, eating a sandwich. If you ask me the same question after arriving on my motorcycle, not only could I tell you the route, I could probably tell you just about all of the cars at every intersection along the way. I’ve my fair share of close calls on the motorcycle, but I can’t say that I’ve ever felt out of control. Maybe I’ve just been lucky so far, but like a lot of these guys have already said, if you are riding defensively, the vast majority of accidents can be avoided.

[trbig]

Easy Pro... I don't need any competition in this race... I do alot better when I am the only one participating! That way.. I win and lose all at once! Just depends whether it's a glass half empty, or half full day!


Tod

[Brian_D]

Most of my daily riding occurs in 30-45mph traffic so I do have to agree with D.P. regarding the reduced visibility and reduced hearing when wearing a full-face helmet. But then again, I remind myself that the helmet isn't for my safety while I'm ON the bike - it only serves its usefullness when I'm OFF the bike.

[Wildkat]

Pro-choice

Personally, I won't go on a bike without a helmet... I feel odd not wearing one... Okay... maybe around the block... but rarely farther than that.

Arguments for wearing one...

1.) Saves the skull if you hit head first or last or even somewhere in the middle of a bounce... sometimes... A friend of ours hit a Jeep that turned left in front of him and it threw him over the Jeep and he landed on his head without a helmet. He has some great pictures of his skull and the bloody area around it. It's a miracle he lived through the accident at all... but we are convinced that his head is harder than the pavement anyway. If he had a helmet on... we wouldn't have been able to see that he actually does have a skull. We are assuming that it does, indeed, encase a brain... luckily, his accident did not offer visual proof of this.

2.) It saves your hair from those nasty split ends you get from excessive wind forces... unless you have long hair and then it only saves the stuff on top... trust me... and my stylist.

3.) Cuts down on wind noise that I, personally, find distracting... and annoying. I like to ride to find peace of mind... I hear enough noise with the kids around.

4.) I believe it makes me safer than without one.


Arguments against wearing a helmet...
(I'm certain there are more, I just don't subscribe to this line of thinking so I couldn't think of more to list)

1.) It REALLY sucks when you get a bee or hornet stuck in there with you at any speed if you can't stop or remove it quickly enough... especially if it didn't die on impact.
I certainly hope it's a bee... you only get stung once that way.

2.) It MAY reduce your senses. I don't really have a problem with this one... but that's just me.

3.) Sometimes it is nice to feel a little more free...


Sometimes, perception is reality... if someone thinks they are safer not wearing a helmet... that just might be the case. I don't necessarily agree with it... but that's my choice, not theirs. Mindset can have a lot to do with how a person reacts to different situations.

There's a cross at an intersection we pass everyday where an 18 year old hit a curb with his head. He was actually wearing a helmet... but it still reminds me that I am not nearly a safe enough rider to go without one because it COULD save my head.

[xs650mike]

Re: Pro-choice

Originally posted by Wildkat
Personally, I won't go on a bike without a helmet... I feel odd not wearing one... Okay... maybe around the block... but rarely farther than that.

The only time I hit my helmeted head was when I was just going for a test ride around the block...

[Targetman]

Link to the Hurt report.

47. The use of the safety helmet is the single critical factor in the prevention of reduction of head injury; the safety helmet which complies with FMVSS 218 is a significantly effective injury countermeasure.

48. Safety helmet use caused no attenuation of critical traffic sounds, no limitation of precrash visual field, and no fatigue or loss of attention; no element of accident causation was related to helmet use.

50. Helmeted riders and passengers showed significantly lower head and neck injury for all types of injury, at all levels of injury severity.

52. There is no liability for neck injury by wearing a safety helmet; helmeted riders had less neck injuries than unhelmeted riders. Only four minor injuries were attributable to helmet use, and in each case the helmet prevented possible critical or fatal head injury.

53. Sixty percent of the motorcyclists were not wearing safety helmets at the time of the accident. Of this group, 26% said they did not wear helmets because they were uncomfortable and inconvenient, and 53% simply had no expectation of accident involvement.

[fredintoon]

The best insurance

I must have owned 'most a hundred bikes in the 50+ years I've been riding and have dropped almost every one of them.
Always wore a helmet, always landed on my arse.
Must be my pear-shaped aerodynamics plus the drag effect from the helmet that lets my backside hit the backtop first. If so, helmet wearing has been really good insurance for me.
As to personal rights, yes one should have the right to do any foolish thing he fancies provided he takes the appropriate precautions (my own youngest son jumped off a bridge with a rubber rope tied to his ankles fer chrissake but at least the jump-masters were trained and competent and sueable by his next of kin)
However, rights bring responsibilities.
The right to ride helmetless is balanced by the responsibility to not bring grief to others by getting injured or killed by so doing.
Fred Hill, S'toon.