Helmet? What's a helmet?

[John]

DP

Have you ever been hard down? The kind where your melon bounces on the pavement a coupla times? I have, and I know that if I hadn't been wearing one, I'd have been treated for a possible concussion and/or skull fracture, added to a broken back. I've been there, and I would hate to see anyone else go through what I did. Granted, there will be a speed/condition where the lid may not save you, but chances are if you are in that serious a situation, then you'll probably be toast anyway. My lid of choice, because I do have a choice, is a half shell made by HJC. It is DOT approved. It has a removable liner that covers my ears, but I can hear very well with it on. I the really cold times I will wear a full face, with a shield.

[D. P. Larmee]

No, the only time any of my bikes have ever gone down was one time the center stand sunk into soft grass in the backyard and I plan to do everything that I can to keep it that way. I have, however cracked the old noggin a number of times. I once caught a whisky bottle on the head that was hurled off the upper deck of Wrigley field into a crowd on the street after some sore losers got upset because some guy caught a baseball. Took a chunk of skull and ripped a large flap of scalp off, but I don't wear a helmet when I walk down Sheffield. I have had my head banged a few times in auto accidents as a passenger, but I don't wear a helmet when I ride in other people's cars. We all take risks everyday and maybe some of us are more risk averse than others. But that’s not really my point. My point is that, while I might not feel that you are any safer wearing a helmet, you do, and you then have the choice to wear a helmet, which is good. There are plenty of things that people do or say that I do not agree with, but if it doesn’t hurt me, I let them make their own choices and certainly don’t call them any names.

[TopCatGr58]

How I love a good Debate!

Hey there D.P.,

We're not calling you an Idiot, perhaps a Darwinian Award Candidate, but as you said, it's your choice!
Is your donor card signed? I'm not wishing any ill to you or anyone who decides to NOT wear one! I'm not trying to pick any sort of fight either, just like you, expressing our opinions!

1)As for Whiplash, I'm just about as prone to get one from a rear-ender in my cage, and that's even though I've raised my headrest up as high as it will go. Many people don't even do that, so it hits them at the base of their head/neck causing over extension of their neck!

2) I know I have more visibility on my bike with my full face on than I do in my cage. I can easily rotate my head, and my upper body if needed to glance over my shoulder, or behind me and I don't have any cage body panels in my way! The opening in my helmet extends well past the corners of my eyes, so when looking straight ahead, I have no restriction in my field of view than if I wasn't wearing one. Yes, if I try to look left or right by just turning my eyes, then it is obstructed, but a simple head turn fixes that. Besides, I only gain 10-20 degrees more peripheral when turning my eyes.

3) I can hear many more sounds much louder and clearer than in my cage. And if my radio is playing, I can't even hear a siren until it's less than a half a block away from me with my windows up!

And I don't really like all that wind, it messes up my hair!
Be Cool, , Be safe! They are not mutually Xclusive!

[BLUEJEEPLAB]

D.P.,

I support your "right" to ride without a helmet, but I stand by my view that it is STUPID.

Do you drink and go hunting? Would you fly an airline that stated that pilot training was a waste of money and in order to offer lower fares, they didn't do any? What about your family? Take them to Salmonella City for lunch? Maybe you have a huge life insurance policy or a really good long term care policy? By the way, if you don't have the latter, that means the taxpayers will be paying for your decision not to wear a helmet, should you not completely snuff yourself.

As for helmets not being safe, who the hell are trying to kid? Buy a decent helmet and you lose no peripheral vision, the hearing loss is no less than the roar of the wind in your ears. You can't possibly say that hitting the pavement with an uprotected melon will result in less damage than wrapping it up in a hard shell with a foam cushion. Take two watermelons up to your roof, wrap one in bubble wrap, leave the other natural. Drop both, my money is that you will be able to unwrap and slice the protected one while you will be hosing the other off of the driveway. (See my earlier post about volunteer firefighters).

If you want to ride without a lid, fine. Just don't get beligerent about your own ignorance or sense of immortality.

By the way, maybe you haven't dropped a bike yet... Can you see the future?

[D. P. Larmee]

I never said that hitting the pavement with an unprotected melon will result in less damage than wrapping it up in a hard shell with a foam cushion. I’m saying that your melon is less likely to hit the pavement if your senses aren’t muffled by a wearing a bucket on your head.

[xs650mike]

Voice of Experience

Originally posted by D. P. Larmee
...what gives you the right to come on here and call me stupid for exercising my choice to not wear a helmet...

No one got on here and called you stupid. We didn't even know you rode without a helmet until you piped up. You're entitled to your opinion and we are entitled to ours. We're talking opinions here as opposed to facts.

I do happen to agree with your opinion about helmet laws being stupid but I still wear a helmet and have ever since I started riding (California didn't even have a helmet law back then). What gets you seriously hurt or killed is not falling (provided you're wearing proper clothing), it's hitting something or getting hit by something.

Enough of opinion, now for some facts. None of the crashes I've had in my 48 years of riding were caused by my wearing a helmet. Some were caused by my own stupidity, others by stupid cagers (I've long since learned not to trust them) and my most recent by circumstances beyond my control, the deer that ran out of the darkness in front of me. One of the first spills I ever had on the street would have caused serious brain damage or killed me had I not been wearing a helmet. One look at that helmet after the spill would convince you of that. This was not a high speed crash, I was only going 15 mph. Another time (46 years ago) I unloaded at 55-60 mph, didn't hit my head but that was purely luck. Fortunately I had learned by then to wear full leathers so I was completely uninjured. Lest you think I've had a lot of crashes because I'm an inept rider I'll tell you that in the 1950s and early '60s motorcycles had ineffective brakes and tires that wouldn't stick on wet pavement. I worked a year ('63/'64) as a dispatch rider in Los Angeles, 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. There was a really high turnover at the company. At the end of the time I rode as a messenger there were only two riders left out of the dozen that were working there when I was hired. The rest either quit or were seriously injured in crashes, two died from crash injuries. All of us wore helmets and most wore leathers. I went down three times myself, all on the same rainy day, all caused by cagers cutting me off. I gave my notice that day.

During all of my time as a rider the bike has been my primary means of transportation. Between the years of 1962 and 1986 I didn't even own a cage. Didn't own a cage between 1989 and 1996 either. I ride rain or shine, year around. Ride in the rain and/or cold without a helmet and you'll probably die of pneumonia.

I have never been seriously hurt in a spill, painfully a couple of times but never seriously.

[D. P. Larmee]

First off, when you shoot off generalities about a large group of riders, if I’m included in this group, your talking about me, whether you know it or not. It’s not really that I’m offended; I’m really more annoyed with people trying to educate people, who don’t really want or need to be educated, by using emotion and statistics that don’t really back anything up.

XS650mike, I’m sorry to hear about your crashes and glad to hear that you were never seriously injured, but the only facts that I heard were that you crashed numerous times and were wearing a helmet every time. There’s a million distractions and obstacles out there everyday and clearly, the helmet was not the direct cause of any of these mishaps, but I still stand by my opinion that perhaps if your senses weren’t cut off, you may have been able to prevent a few of these.

Don’t get me wrong, I have a rack of five or so helmets and I do wear them on occasion as protection from the cold or rain. I also bring one with me if I might have to travel through states that require it. I have had plenty of experience riding with and without helmets and I personally feel more in control and hence safer when all of my sense are unobstructed.

[Pat Kelly]

The best rider/driver in the world shares the road with the worst driver/rider in the world. Accidents happen.

[Glarusguy]

This topic has raised even a pretty good debate in my house. My girlfriend and I have been debating for a couple of days on and off about it. It didn't take too long for us both to agree that wearing a helmet is better than not. What surprized me is how insistent she was about passing a law to wear helmets was a good idea.
So, there seems to be two debates here:
1. wearing a helmet is a safe practice.
2. legislators should be ABLE to pass a law requiring them.

The first one seems pretty straight forward. Most any properly designed saftey device is beneficial. The second one however seems a bit tougher. Should law makers be ABLE to pass laws that infringe on personal liberties?
Now I claim to be no historian or a student of law, but even with my limited knowledge of how our government is set up I would say no. Now my girlfriend, while talking with me about this issue, never gets past the awfullness of what could happen after a helmetless motorcycle accident to eveyone else but the driver. Yes it is awful, but government should not be ABLE to make that decision for anyone.
While majority does generally rule in Democracy(generally), our system seems to be slowly taken over by pansy, overprotective, personal agending(word?) groups of people that, for whatever reason, never seem to get past the awfullness in the cause and effect of any situation. It is this emotional responce that sways people toward the direction of these groups. Unfortunately that direction is not always toward freedom.

Pesonally sometimes I like to ride around the area I live in without a helmet. A nice sunny day. The feeling of freedom that it all brings in.
Alot of the time I wear a helmet. Hell if I have a helmet on I'll be able to go faster, cuz now I'm "safe". Right?

I do have to say though that groups like ours do a great thing by coming together in numbers and be able to enjoy a common interest. If safety is promoted because of it then even better.

[xs650mike]

Originally posted by D. P. Larmee
First off, when you shoot off generalities about a large group of riders, if I’m included in this group, your talking about me, whether you know it or not. It’s not really that I’m offended; I’m really more annoyed with people trying to educate people, who don’t really want or need to be educated, by using emotion and statistics that don’t really back anything up.

XS650mike, I’m sorry to hear about your crashes and glad to hear that you were never seriously injured, but the only facts that I heard were that you crashed numerous times and were wearing a helmet every time. There’s a million distractions and obstacles out there everyday and clearly, the helmet was not the direct cause of any of these mishaps, but I still stand by my opinion that perhaps if your senses weren’t cut off, you may have been able to prevent a few of these.

Don’t get me wrong, I have a rack of five or so helmets and I do wear them on occasion as protection from the cold or rain. I also bring one with me if I might have to travel through states that require it. I have had plenty of experience riding with and without helmets and I personally feel more in control and hence safer when all of my sense are unobstructed.

Don't get me wrong either, I'm really not attacking you. I'm just trying to give others the benefit of my age and experience. Some would hold that anyone who straddles a "murdercycle" is plain stupid. I don't at all subscribe to that opinion. If wearing a helmet interferes with your perceived safety or your riding enjoyment by all means don't wear one. It's still a (somewhat) free country. I agree that helmet laws are stupid in that they address a non-problem, or at least a very small problem. The number of motorcyclists with head injuries pales in comparison to cagers with head injuries yet it is illegal to wear a helmet while driving a cage in my state. This is discrimination against riders pure and simple.

Most of my spills happened over 40 years ago when I was constantly pushing things. My point was that to even survive a year of 40 hour weeks slicing through heavy traffic shows that I was able to be aware of what was going on around me enough to not get nailed by some cager despite wearing a helmet. I've got a rubber neck. Those falls on rainy streets wouldn't have happened with modern tires. The only time I've actually had a collision (other than the deer) was when a cager totalled my XJ750 back in the mid '80s in a head-on. I was completely uninjured which was pure dumb luck and no there was no way I could avoid being hit. With the sole exception of the deer incident, I haven't had a crash in over 30 years and the one in the mid '80s was the only one since the early '60s.

I agree with you that most helmets restrict peripheral vision to an unacceptable degree which is why I generally wear a shorty helmet. When I do ride with a full face (usually bad weather) I find it somewhat disorienting at first but after a few miles I'm OK with it. At highway speeds I can actually hear better with a full helmet since the wind noise is greatly reduced. I also agree that you won't need the helmet if you can avoid crashing but like Pat Kelly says, accidents happen. My particular opinion holds that one should dress for the crash, not the ride.

[LoHo]

A group of riders I was with had this same debate some time past. The beanie guys were adamant about their rights and pointed out the accidents where a helmeted rider was killed. I understand that a helmet is not a cure-all; massive chest injuries will kill you, internal bleeding, etc. But that isn't what scares me.

Several years ago, I came up to a stop sign on at a t-intersection on a nice spring day. As I looked left for trafiic, I didn't notice the sand that had washed into the roadway. As I stopped, I lost the front end and high-sided at almost zero mph. The fall snapped my helmet into the pavement at a pretty good velocity. Without a lid, I'm sure to have had a concussion or worse.

Now, the internal debate I'm having is half helmet verses full face, as I've seen pictures of guys with ground-up chins from face plants with partial helmets.

My feeling is that, since the helmet has little effect on anyone but the rider, he should get to choose. But some provisions should be made to guarantee that he bears the full responsibility of his choice. I'm much more worried about permanent disability than of being killed. And head injuries are the express lane to disability.

Me? I'm wearing a helmet.

[Targetman]

D.P.,
The statistics on that site are only for riders KILLED, not with head injuries that survived....
The numbers are so close that it's meaningless anyway. Those stats, as they're prestented, do nothing to support your argument that helmets cause fatalities, or even accidents.
Got any stats showing HEAD INJURIES between hemeted and unhelmeted riders?
After all, that's what helmets are designed to reduce in the first place.
The helmet is designed to reduce injury to your head from falling about 6ft to the ground with an impact speed of about 13 mph. Even if you're going 100 mph, it's basic job is still to save you're noggin from the impact of falling 6ft. to the ground, not the 100mph impact with the telephone poll, or curb, or other vehicle....
In order to protect your head from an impact, you first have to know what kind of impact you're going to have.
The DOT standard is designed around that initial impact with the ground, because in the average accident that is the impact that does the damage.

And when you say you are going to do everything in your power not to have an accident? C'mon..... Are you really THAT good? If you finally do go down, you will see there is not enough time to plan any avoidance....
It's like these guys who say to me "I had to lay it down for safety"....
If you have enough time to "plan" to lay it down, you have enough time to brake and swerve or even stop.
What they really mean is that they panick-stopped and it WENT down.

I don't think you're stupid btw, and I totally understand what you mean about choosing to wear one on your own terms, or having laws tell you that you HAVE to wear one. I'm Canadian and don't have any choice. Unless I choose not to ride at all, I'll be wearing my helmet.
But my own head was saved by a nice red Shoei... that's the only statistic I need to know.

[mro]

one should dress for the crash, not the ride.

Pretty much just a couple kinds of riders.
Those who have gone down, and
those who are going to go down.

If you ride enough, its just a matter of time.

Certainly doesn't have to be your fault, dosen't have to be "bad" but bets are it will happen.

mro


btw
As a kid, wore a pony tail and sun glasses.
Couldn't/wouldn't happen to me.
(well just a few times)

[TopCatGr58]

Indian Head

Just saw an episode of Biker Build Off featuring Indian Larry!

He had just ridden several hundred miles side by side with his competition across the midwest. At the show, he was doing what they said he always did, stunt riding in the parking lot. He was riding his bike, standing on the seat, no hands, probably not going over 30mph, fell off, hit his head, wasn't wearing a helmet. He died shortly thereafter from his injury.

Funny thing was that he did wear a helmet for the ride! Yes, he died doing what he loved to do, but he might not have had to IF he had worn one, even a beanie!?
T.C.

[John]

The only times you see these biker build off guys wearing a lid is when they are riding in a state that has helmet laws.